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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Religious Right and Evangelicals | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
brenna, so you can't answer?
The truth is the civil righs movement was led by ministers of the gospel, and so the church as far as the churches of those ministers, did indeed lead the way there. I think part of the problem is your assuming such a thing as a monolithic entity called the church exists organizationally.
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
I think part of the problem is your assuming such a thing as a monolithic entity called the church exists organizationally. i know there is no such entity, do you? but there is such a political entity as the 'evangelical movement' or 'christian voters' or what have you. these are what i am referring to.
The truth is the civil righs movement was led by ministers of the gospel, and so the church as far as the churches of those ministers, did indeed lead the way there. note, those were black ministers. it was more a movement of black people than of christians. most white christians were either uninterested or strongly opposed. that or interested but not concerned enough to be actively involved in marches, sit-ins, strikes and the impending jail time. Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Look at the number of Christian Private Schools that were opened as the Civil Rights Acts were passed.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6353 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
note, those were black ministers. it was more a movement of black people than of christians. most white christians were either uninterested or strongly opposed. that or interested but not concerned enough to be actively involved in marches, sit-ins, strikes and the impending jail time. The impression I've always got from watching documentaries about the civil rights movement is that the the whites who were actively involved would be charactised more as left wing radicals rather than Christians (although they could be both of course). If any of our board regulars were involved at the time I'd be interested to know if this impression is actually correct. Oops! Wrong Planet
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
So was Martin Luther King, jr a Christian minister or not? How about the rest of the ordained ministers active in the civil rights movement? Are they not part of the church?
Exactly what is your idea of the church?
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
but there is such a political entity as the 'evangelical movement' or 'christian voters' or what have you. these are what i am referring to. So white people are part of "the church" and blacks are not? Moreover, on what basis do you have to make the claim that conservative, white Christian voters were pro-abortion when it became legal?
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anglagard Member (Idle past 836 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
So was Martin Luther King, jr a Christian minister Sure as Malcolm X was a Muslim.
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MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6353 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
MangyTiger writes: the whites who were actively involved randman writes: So was Martin Luther King, jr a Christian minister or not? Sure he was - but I've always been under the impression he was also black. My post was about the whites who were actively involved in the Civil Rights movement, so I fail to see the how MLK jr. is relevant. Oops! Wrong Planet
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4898 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
You referred to "the church". Do you mean to qualify that and claim the white church?
If so, can you substantiate that the white church was pro-abortion?
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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
exactly.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
As with so many things during that period, it was a mess, with people, churches, families, generations split.
I must also say that I can only speak from personal experience and so this should be taken as that. The religious folk supporting the idea of equal rights for Blacks were mostly Black Christians, White Jews and White members of several of what many here have called the Liberal Churches, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians and Roman Catholics. I also met a few who were Southern Baptist as well as quite a few Friends and one Amish guy I remember since it was the first time he had ever been away from rural PA and he just couldn't stop talking about "How many people there were." The people opposing rights for Blacks were almost all, 100% White Christians. Not only did the White Christian Churches (including some from the denominations listed as supporting rights for Blacks) oppose equal rights, They preached against it from the pulpit and they actively tried to avoid the results should Blacks actually succeed in gaining rights like riding on the same bus to school as the white kids or go to the same school or live in the same neighborhood or eat in the same resturant. The period starting around 1957 saw an amazing growth in private Christian Church Schools. These were the "Avoidance Schools" and nearly every conservative church started one. They popped up like toadstools. The sole purpose of those schools was to make sure little white Johnny or little white Janie didn't have to sit next to some monkey. It was not just a southern phenomena either. The same thing was happening in Chicago and Boston and St. Louis and Newark and Hoboken and Philadelphia and Detroit. Christians supported equal rights for Blacks. Christians also opposed allowing them to have such rights. And Christians were the more violent opposition, not staying in the courts, but bombing churches and schools, killing marchers, terrifying people in their homes, standing on the side walks and calling for the police to "Loose the dogs" or "Turn on the hoses". It was some of Christianity's Brightest Hours, and some of the Darkest. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
If any of our board regulars were involved at the time I'd be interested to know if this impression is actually correct. I was about five years too young to be actively involved, but yes, my impression at the time was that the white folks marching in the South were not particularly churchy and were left-leaning. That was the FBI's impression, too, as they tended to equate them with Godless Pinko Communists and such. Quite a few of the non-black "names" in the civil rights movement were Jewish, too: of course, Jews were still fighting "redlining" and other forms of discrimination themselves even into the 60's. I'm kinda proud to say that my Presbyterian minister father preached against racial discrimination and habitually wore an "equality" lapel pin in 1960 or so - in Arkansas.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
The people opposing rights for Blacks were almost all, 100% White Christians. Not only did the White Christian Churches (including some from the denominations listed as supporting rights for Blacks) oppose equal rights, They preached against it from the pulpit and they actively tried to avoid the results should Blacks actually succeed in gaining rights like riding on the same bus to school as the white kids or go to the same school or live in the same neighborhood or eat in the same resturant. How many of these churches were Southern churches rather than northern or western? That is, I think this was predominantly a Southern phenomenon, not a Christian phenomenon, but perhaps you can correct me.
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MUTTY6969 Member (Idle past 6190 days) Posts: 65 From: ARIZONA Joined: |
I agree, my father was a adult ED teacher in Detroit for 40 years and friends with Rosa Parks, who I was fortunate enough to have as a babysitter from time to time growing up, and although she very rarely would talk about the incident on the bus or anything else that happened at that time, when she or any of the other older folk talked about that time it was not very glowing on white Christians.
Steve Rushin: "By the age of 18, the average American has witnessed 200,000 acts of violence on television, most of them occurring during Game 1 of the NHL playoff series."
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MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6353 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
You referred to "the church". Do you mean to qualify that and claim the white church? If so, can you substantiate that the white church was pro-abortion? I think you've lost the plot - or at least the sub-thread of messages My initial Message 34, reproduced below in it's entirety, does not contain the words "church" or "abortion". It was an observation and query on the demoraphy of whites who were actively involved in the Civil Rights movement.
note, those were black ministers. it was more a movement of black people than of christians. most white christians were either uninterested or strongly opposed. that or interested but not concerned enough to be actively involved in marches, sit-ins, strikes and the impending jail time.
The impression I've always got from watching documentaries about the civil rights movement is that the the whites who were actively involved would be charactised more as left wing radicals rather than Christians (although they could be both of course). If any of our board regulars were involved at the time I'd be interested to know if this impression is actually correct. Oops! Wrong Planet
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