Christian Pride.

Are you sure you don't mean "'umble"?TTFN,WK

'onestly?? only if you were born in the sounds of bow bells.

well, they've been telling me all along that unless I become as humble as they are God will never choose me to become a Christian, therefore I will never be humble enough to accept God.So, if I become as humble as a Christian, God will make me one and give me the humility that I needed in the first place in order to become one....damn, my head hurts!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

Quite right.... and they are damned proud of that humility.

No wonder your head hurts. Straw gospels are a dime a dozen and all of them should be taken with a large dose of asprin - for headache is what they lead to in the measure that you try to follow the convoluted logic.To correct your error above. God is the one who attempts to 'humble' you - to bring you to a point of accepting him. For humility is indeed one attribute which needs to be instilled in you before the concluding elements of the gospel can have an a effect on you. Write that down: God is the one who brings you to that point - you don't have to 'get humble' for as you are you cannot do that. And he knows it - that's why he is the one who attempts to bring you to that point.You can resist his efforts. And resist them all your life. That is your role only. You can only damn yourself. If you become humble it is because he orchastrated things to lead to that.That make you feel better?

It is worse than that. If you get too humble, you start proclaiming how humble you are, and then as soon as that happens, bang. Into the pit because of pride.

so, how will I know when I reach that point ? so, if I'm damned it's my own fault but if I get saved it's because he orchestrated things ?!so let me see...he's orchestrated things so I have a chance to get saved but he hasn't orchestrated things so that I get damned, right ?I love Christian thinking! yes, yes it's all clear now,bad things happen to me: my fault.good things happen to me: God did it!This black and white view of the world where God takes responsibility for my salvation but not for my damnation (despite him being omnipotent and loving) has really cleared my headache.cheers Ian!

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"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."

You'll know. If you don't you haven't. There is litte point in trying to put it into words - words are too limited Top marks. This means that if you are saved it is by his grace. If you are damned he is just in punishing you. You'd be guilty as charged and you would have no defence. Justice.Gods Grace vs Gods Wrath. You will be exposed to the total of one or the other. It is black and white in that sense. How many times must you be told? If you are saved it is because his actions proved effectual - they resulted in you being saved. If not it is because they didn't. What makes his actions ineffectual is your rejection of his attempt to save you. Your protests could be summed up in the phrase "I am not guilty". Your ducking and diving all over the place so as to arrive at this conclusion. I don't mind - its only me your trying it on with. I don't count. But it won't wash with him. He has all the evidence to demonstrate that you are.Funny, but in essence, being saved involved you admitting your guilt to him. You can't of course - unless he brings you, convinces you, that you are indeed guilty before him. He will do everything he can to bring you to that place - but he can't force you if you insist on wriggling free. You are permitted by him to avoid being brought to the place where you can admit it. How is that - you haven't gotten what it is yet. For example... This is too generalist. God can cause bad things to happen to you too. But when it comes to salvation (the process of which might be aided by the bad things that happen you) Goddoesit Add his wrath and justice back in (for I do not know why you persist in leaving them out) and see how you feel then. Should I seriously imagine you as one who see's no problem in pointing the finger at the Judge and blaming HIM for sending you down for what YOU did. If it weren't abysmally tragic it would be amusing... Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

"Attempts"?Are you suggesting that God might fail to humble some of us?
One would think that a snap of the Mighty Fingers would suffice.

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God wants that none should perish but that all would come to repentance. Some will perish. Does God not getting what he wants represent failure? One would think that a snap of his mighty fingers would suffice.God will not fail to get what he wants. Gods love will get what it wants - a people who responded to him and came to want him. Gods wrath will get what it wants too. Gods wrath will be poured out on all those who rejected his attempts to woo them. They were objects of wrath to begin with so its not like he is acting out of pique (just in case your reading this Legend)IOW: that his attempts to draw us to him do not draw us to him result in his wrath being satisfied instead of his love. He will express one or the other to us.He cannot lose. Edited by iano, : No reason given.Edited by iano, : No reason given.

I think what they are referring to is someone's inability to realize their own shortcomings. I mean, we all have them. We all have our hang-ups, we all have our strengths. But someone who thinks they have all the answers is a dangerous person to themselves and to society. They always have some sort of justification for why they are right, they are never in the wrong, their views are always correct and if you don't see eye to eye with them, its somehow your fault. They're called, "Sociopaths." That's the pride they are referring to. They are saying that we are all in need of something. Those who can't see their own fragility are reckless. Any good Christian recognizes that they are wretches when left to their own devises. How does that equate to pride? If anything, you could make a much more reasonable assumption that most are living in self-deprication, not pride. If they were to boast about that relationship, then I would say that is pride. Atheists have just as much "chance" at an afterlife. But in their pride, they reject it. God doesn't play favorites. Good things happen to those who do good, bad things happen to those who do bad. I'm sure some do. I just feel honored that He would consider a piece of crap like me into His kingdom. I think its more an issue that they want to do whatever they feel like without any consequence. That's been the dialogue after creation week.

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“Always be ready to give a defense to
everyone who asks you a reason for the
hope that is in you.” -1st Peter 3:15

Of course it does - the greatest failure imaginable. You make it sound like God's love and wrath are equivalent - like He doesn't care which He uses."Heads I win, tails you lose" is not a very impressive depiction of God.Edited by Ringo, : Spelling.

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*sigh*. I really don't enjoy discussing anything with you Ringo. Sorry for responding to you and wasting your time. I won't be doing it again.

You can run but you can't hide. I will continue to point out your egregious errors. Others will see your inability to respond and draw their own conclusions.

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If there is an area in which I will admit complete and utter defeat it is my inability to nail jelly to a wall.