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Author Topic:   Importance of Innerrancy to Moderate Christians
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 1 of 158 (334779)
07-24-2006 8:58 AM


It is my understanding that if the bible is not the inerrant word of God, then the tenets of the Judeo-Christian faiths have no base in Divinity. Now, I've met some who do not hold that the Bible must be inerrant for their faith. For moderate Christians, who do not believe in the inerrancy of the bible, what is the motivation for following faith?
Edited by AdminPD, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by nwr, posted 07-24-2006 9:58 AM AlienInvader has replied
 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2006 10:05 AM AlienInvader has replied
 Message 9 by jar, posted 07-24-2006 11:28 AM AlienInvader has replied
 Message 10 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-24-2006 1:06 PM AlienInvader has replied
 Message 67 by truthlover, posted 07-29-2006 1:53 AM AlienInvader has not replied

  
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 5 of 158 (334805)
07-24-2006 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by PaulK
07-24-2006 10:05 AM


Re: Putting the cart before the horse ?
quote:
Can you explain how someone could come to believe that the Bible is inerrant without following faith ?
no, without faith, the stories of the bible are untenable.
quote:
And what would the motivation be for that faith ?
taken out of context, that would be rewording my question.
i'm not too sure what you're asking on a whole.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2006 10:05 AM PaulK has replied

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 Message 6 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2006 10:55 AM AlienInvader has replied

  
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 7 of 158 (334810)
07-24-2006 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by nwr
07-24-2006 9:58 AM


a sermon is not really the same as a holy text. If the faith(religion) is based solely on what it says in a

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Replies to this message:
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AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 11 of 158 (334892)
07-24-2006 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by PaulK
07-24-2006 10:55 AM


Re: Putting the cart before the horse ?
quote:
No, I'm not rewording your question, I'm reflecting it to show that your question isn't the issue you make it. You asked what was the motivation for the faith to beleive in Christianity without believing that the Bible is inerrant. I asked what would be the motivation for the faith to beleive that the Bible is inerrant.
In short I view your question as a mistake. The belief in inerrancy makes no fundamental difference - I would suggest that the motivations in each case are similar. Arguably the belief in Biblical inerrancy requires more faith to gloss over the internal tensions and inconsistencies in the inerrancy doctrine.
... that leaves me worse off then it did when i started no?

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 Message 12 by PaulK, posted 07-24-2006 2:18 PM AlienInvader has replied

  
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 13 of 158 (334898)
07-24-2006 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by macaroniandcheese
07-24-2006 1:06 PM


i think, somewhere in there was what i was looking for... yet, you're treating the bible as a "good read"? And, if you're doing this, then is there still faith in the resurrection?
Being skeptical, the only way i could believe in the resurrection is if i also believed in the inerrant nature of the bible.
if noah was just some dude on a boat, it's still an inspirational story, sure, but it would by no means be a base for faith.
Edited by AlienInvader, : added noahness

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AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 14 of 158 (334899)
07-24-2006 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
07-24-2006 11:28 AM


Re: Two important questions needs to be answered.
quote:
Which Bible? There are several Canons (lists of what is or is not in the Bible) and no one Universal Canon. Until you can identify what the Bible is, it is impossible to even ask if it is inerrant.
whichever floats your boat basically, i'm asking about personal beliefs.
quote:
Second, what is inerrant? Does that mean it is accuract as a guide to Faith? Or does that mean that it must be factually correct in terms of history and events? If it contains a parable, a fable told by Jesus to explain some point, do those events in the parable need to be factually correct? If not, then is there any reason that other tales such as the Flood could also be meant simply as a means of illustrating some underlying moral or lesson?
i once heard that the resurrection is the core of the christian faith, without the resurrection... yeah. If the mundane parts are in error, wouldn't it be reasonable to suspect that the more exceptional parts are also in error?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 07-24-2006 11:28 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 07-24-2006 2:44 PM AlienInvader has replied

  
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 15 of 158 (334900)
07-24-2006 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by PaulK
07-24-2006 2:18 PM


Re: Putting the cart before the horse ?
so, what kind of thing makes for the strength of belief that can legitimize a faulty text.

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AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 21 of 158 (334916)
07-24-2006 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
07-24-2006 2:44 PM


Re: Two important questions needs to be answered.
quote:
I believe that the ressurection (and it is not as much the core as the Ascension) happened but even if it were not true, the basic message of Christianity would still be valid.
but the message isn't the faith... hell, i believe in most of the messages.

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 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-24-2006 3:35 PM AlienInvader has replied

  
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 22 of 158 (334918)
07-24-2006 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by macaroniandcheese
07-24-2006 2:57 PM


so in essense, you're a diest?

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 Message 18 by macaroniandcheese, posted 07-24-2006 2:57 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 24 of 158 (334920)
07-24-2006 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
07-24-2006 3:35 PM


Re: Two important questions needs to be answered.
well, to the average american, that'd be the king james right?
inerrancy, is that the bible (king james version) is accurate in all it's accounts... the real question is, why aren't all christians literalists?
and shouldn't it be important that a holy text be accurate in it's account?
Edited by AlienInvader, : No reason given.

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 Message 23 by jar, posted 07-24-2006 3:35 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 30 of 158 (335132)
07-25-2006 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
07-24-2006 4:10 PM


Re: Two important questions needs to be answered.
quote:
The question then becomes, "If Christianity cannot even agree on which books should or should not be in the Bible, how can we say that any one Bible, regardless of translation, is innerant?"
actually, that's a whole different topic, my question isn't about which canon, that's unimportant, what i'm questioning is the source of belief regardless of the group of text.
quote:
One possiblity is that the two stories teach us lessons about how people of a given period saw GOD, different aspects of the external entity, the Territory that is GOD. In Genesis 1 we see a transcendant separate GOD, sure, overarching, aloof. In Genesis 2 we see a personal GOD, a friend and companion. Two different lessons.
salvation isn't supposed to be a "lesson" it's supposed to be a promise. A tale, a parable even, isn't good enough to qualify as a holy text, pandering in the salvation of souls.
my question is about the why of the belief structure, and foundation, of those who don't "jump through loops" to reconcile the bible, but instead acknowledge it as flawed. Do they, as you do, consider it a moral guideline, one extended parable, and little else? and if so, how do they justify their belief in an afterlife with its only base in this extended parable? and if not, then what do they believe?

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 Message 27 by jar, posted 07-24-2006 4:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 07-25-2006 12:21 PM AlienInvader has replied
 Message 33 by ringo, posted 07-25-2006 12:28 PM AlienInvader has replied
 Message 70 by truthlover, posted 07-29-2006 2:10 AM AlienInvader has replied

  
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 31 of 158 (335135)
07-25-2006 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by nwr
07-24-2006 7:03 PM


quote:
The Bible is the story of the Jewish people's struggle to understand their God.
ok
quote:
That they made mistakes along the way, and that their concept of God evolved over time, does not imply that fails as a guide.
ok... wait, wtf? mostly right, does not a holy text make, what you're implying is that, it's good enough, as a holy text? and people along the way, blew it's inerrancy out of proportion?
quote:
That it is not inerrant does not pose a problem.
doesn't really, fit well, with what i've seen. Observation trumps theory ^_^.
quote:
If anything, it is the assumption of inerrancy that poses the greater problem. For those who believe inerrancy must accept that their God is massively confused, is at times evil, and is highly inconsistent.
it's disheartening to see their antics too.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by nwr, posted 07-25-2006 12:36 PM AlienInvader has replied
 Message 35 by Brian, posted 07-25-2006 1:06 PM AlienInvader has replied

  
AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 36 of 158 (335173)
07-25-2006 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
07-25-2006 12:21 PM


Re: Two important questions needs to be answered.
... you are frustrating... i'm working from a hypothetical, so can you please not criticize my premise?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 07-25-2006 12:21 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 37 of 158 (335174)
07-25-2006 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by ringo
07-25-2006 12:28 PM


quote:
And yet the Bible is chock-full of parables, and some of them are explicitly designated as parables.
my issue is that, the bible itself isn't designated as one big parable, a large portion of the recounting is presented as truth... nonfiction if you will; or that's how it's taken.

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AlienInvader
Member (Idle past 4954 days)
Posts: 48
From: MD
Joined: 07-07-2006


Message 38 of 158 (335176)
07-25-2006 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by nwr
07-25-2006 12:36 PM


and what this further means is... i know a lot more fundamentalists than i do moderates... if we follow your criterion.

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