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Author Topic:   How are we justified?
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 30 (32471)
02-17-2003 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Arachnid
02-16-2003 6:07 PM


I dunno, i',m just rocking some foundations here and there

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Arachnid, posted 02-16-2003 6:07 PM Arachnid has replied

Replies to this message:
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Arachnid
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 30 (32481)
02-17-2003 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Gzus
02-17-2003 3:45 PM


Dont know if any foundations are being rocked, but it's a valid perspective for both sides of the argument. I was reading it from a creat's perspective

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drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 30 (32509)
02-17-2003 9:00 PM


Being a Christian is not a fire escape. Its knowing Him. The power of God is humility. Not the flesh of man that is pride and a materialistic power. The scripture speaks truth that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Well, God will not force you. God doesn't send men to hell we send ourselves. God is a God of love but He is a righteous and holy God as well.
As far as evidence. Here's a few.
1)Biblical and secualr chronology.
2)Prophecy(Things that were written before they took place.)
3)You look at most cultures have stories that sound like the creation account of Genesis but they have been changed.
4)The flood. What would happen with a flood? Billions of dead things buried under the earth. What do we see?
[This message has been edited by drummachine, 02-17-2003]

Replies to this message:
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compmage
Member (Idle past 5230 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 19 of 30 (32521)
02-18-2003 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by drummachine
02-17-2003 9:00 PM


drummachine writes:
quote:

As far as evidence. Here's a few.
1)Biblical and secualr chronology.

Examples?
quote:

2)Prophecy(Things that were written before they took place.)

You mean the one that can be interpreted in so many ways that it is almost impossible for a person not to find something that matches?
Or do you have some prophecies that are clear and precise?
quote:

3)You look at most cultures have stories that sound like the creation account of Genesis but they have been changed.

Just like the Genesis creation account appears to be a changed version of the Babylonion creation myth?
quote:

4)The flood. What would happen with a flood? Billions of dead things buried under the earth. What do we see?

Except that the sorting of fossils in not what you would expect had they been deposited by a flood.
------------------
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

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Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Arachnid, posted 02-18-2003 11:15 AM compmage has replied

  
Arachnid
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 30 (32558)
02-18-2003 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by compmage
02-18-2003 1:09 AM


We're off subject. The moderator is gonna close the thread if you keep it up

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 Message 19 by compmage, posted 02-18-2003 1:09 AM compmage has replied

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compmage
Member (Idle past 5230 days)
Posts: 601
From: South Africa
Joined: 08-04-2005


Message 21 of 30 (32578)
02-18-2003 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Arachnid
02-18-2003 11:15 AM


Arachnid writes:
quote:

We're off subject. The moderator is gonna close the thread if you keep it up

I respond to what others write. If the moderators feel that the thread has moved completely off topic they have every right to closed the topic. However, if the discussion is still interesting this discussion would more than likely be moved to a new thread.
However, if then main discussion is still taking place, then side topics are generally allowed.
------------------
Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the Western Spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun. Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-eight million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue-green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

This message is a reply to:
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Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 30 (32582)
02-18-2003 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by drummachine
02-17-2003 9:00 PM


quote:
Originally posted by drummachine:
Being a Christian is not a fire escape.

Sure sounds like it to me!
quote:
Originally posted by drummachine:
The power of God is humility

Prove it!
quote:
Originally posted by drummachine:
Its knowing Him... Not the flesh of man that is pride and a materialistic power.

Again, Prove it! Your words mean nothing to me, they are sensless babble
quote:
Originally posted by drummachine:
1)Biblical and secualr chronology.

so it's a history book! So what?
quote:
Originally posted by drummachine:
2)Prophecy(Things that were written before they took place.)

Yeah, well Nostradamus was pretty good at it as well, and i've heard a lot of the same stuff from satanists and fortune tellers i.e. what makes you any different? -that is of course if it isn't all a load of bollocks.
quote:
Originally posted by drummachine:
3)You look at most cultures have stories that sound like the creation account of Genesis but they have been changed.

even if this is true (which i think it isn't) i.e. i seriously doubt that the buddhists/hindus/voodoo religions,... were influenced by genesis! firstly how do you distinguish between each of the three mainstream judeo-christian faiths? Can you prove that Genesis wasn't merely a regurgitation of past stories?

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Peter
Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 23 of 30 (33012)
02-24-2003 3:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Gzus
12-27-2002 9:00 AM


Reality is just shared perception.
We have no way of knowing that anyone else exists in
fact ... all other people could be mental constructs of
our own.
It is a pointless line of reasoning since we must make the
best existence we can out of the perceptions we have. If those
perceptions are broadly speaking corroborated by a sufficient
number of others, then we have no reason to act in any
way other than to accept that as our reality.
If 100 independent observers see an object in the sky, which
they all describe inthe same way, and cannot be reconciled with
any known aircraft then it IS a UFO (unidentified flying object).
That doesn't mean it is extra terrestrial.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Gzus, posted 12-27-2002 9:00 AM Gzus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Gzus, posted 02-24-2003 5:52 AM Peter has replied
 Message 28 by Satcomm, posted 02-24-2003 1:30 PM Peter has replied

  
Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 30 (33017)
02-24-2003 5:52 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Peter
02-24-2003 3:58 AM


That's the spirit!

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 Message 23 by Peter, posted 02-24-2003 3:58 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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eifion
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 30 (33028)
02-24-2003 7:42 AM


back to apples
If there's 100 of us in the room, and we all think it's an apple, and we take a look at it every 5 seconds for three hours and it's still an apple at every viewing, then until something profoundly suggests otherwise a good working hypothesis is that it's an apple.
------------------
To err is human, to moo is bovine

Replies to this message:
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Peter
Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 26 of 30 (33031)
02-24-2003 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Gzus
02-24-2003 5:52 AM


Does that mean you agree or disagree ... or does it
depend on whether or not I perceive you to agree?

This message is a reply to:
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Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 30 (33035)
02-24-2003 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by eifion
02-24-2003 7:42 AM


Re: back to apples
yes, but how do you know that the other people are real? sounds childish but that's what skepticism is all about! the annoying thing is, the skeptics could very well be right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by eifion, posted 02-24-2003 7:42 AM eifion has replied

Replies to this message:
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Satcomm
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 30 (33070)
02-24-2003 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Peter
02-24-2003 3:58 AM


quote:
Reality is just shared perception.
We have no way of knowing that anyone else exists in
fact ... all other people could be mental constructs of
our own.
*Yawn*
That's a selfish philosophy trying to justify relativism.
That relativistic psyche-babble nonsense may sound smart, but it is clear that common sense went right out the window.
Just because we don't "perceive" something, doesn't mean that it does not exist.
------------------
What is intelligence without wisdom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Peter, posted 02-24-2003 3:58 AM Peter has replied

Replies to this message:
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Peter
Member (Idle past 1556 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 29 of 30 (33095)
02-24-2003 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Satcomm
02-24-2003 1:30 PM


That's more or less what I said in the rest of
the post, wasn't it?

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eifion
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 30 (33127)
02-25-2003 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Gzus
02-24-2003 8:14 AM


Re: back to apples
Posted by Gzus:-
yes, but how do you know that the other people are real?
I don't, and I can't ever *know* that the other people are real, but if they seem real, and act as if they're real and respond as if they're real, then I'll carry on as if they are untill some evidence appears to make me think they're not.
That's how science works, even the oldest, most well founded laws of physics would need amending if a situation were found where they don't hold.

This message is a reply to:
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