The boasts of atheists (Atheist self-deception)

1. Premise. If there is not a God the only kind of morality and happiness anyone can have is subjective, practical.2. As stated, this doesn't not necessarily mean that things are any different if there IS a God.3. The way an atheist "should never speak" is about happiness and morality in any terms OTHER than practical and subjective.4. What this further means (I guess. Robin can correct me) is that honesty requires a more sober assessment of happiness and morality in the absence of a God /absence of absolute standards than Robin thinks is expressed in what he calls "boasting" tones. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I mean, really. This is supposed to show how wonderful this person is and how this person doesn't need religion.This will not do. One does not make statements like that if one is just a little bit honest.

Well, yes, though admittedly I object to boasting in and of itself. I WOULD THINK ANYONE WOULD!I was raised not to boast. Has that gone out of style?

How about being honest for a change? How about that?

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"Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law

Well, Robin, it depends on community culture. I knew someone who was raised in a rural area where competant men showed their strength by silence. He was in the service and the New York guys all bragged about what they could do whether they could or not. His officer was from the East Coast and was surprised to discover that he was quite competant.These are culturaly differences. Why haven't you gotten a clue by now?
I'll also mention that sometimes I find whining more annoying than boasting, but that is just my personal response.lfen

It still surprises me that the Buddha chose to explicitly teach that life is unsatisfactory (dukha) as if anyone needed that pointed out to them. Yet he made that his first noble truth so it must have seemed to him that people needed that pointed out to them: William James in his Varieties of Religious Experience points out that people differ widely in temperment. Take Teddy Roosevelt as one example and Winston Churchill as another. Roosevelt was at times almost manic whereas Churchill struggled with depression. Neurotransmitters have profound impact on moods and in part at least are influeced by external factors like genetics, and developement.You lived and taught as long as you have without noticing that people differ in many ways? Why are you expecting everyone to feel and think like you do? I mean I want people to accept my viewpoint and I'm amazed that fundies can delude themselves as easily as they do, but at least I expect people to do all kinds of crazy things.lfen

What? No academic freedom? What kind of school do you teach at? I'm not asking where but just ... well, I've had professors with different belief systems. No body said anything about firing them.They would have had to plagiarize, fake data, or do something immoral like seduce students or give them drugs I suppose, although several were rather notorious for having affairs and or doing drugs with students. That was during the 60's and 70's. Maybe things have changed.lfen

Why don't you stop the unfounded accusatiosn of dishonesty ?If you've got a point then make it. Don't just attack people for saying things you disagree with.

I curious as to what the quote was a response to, its not really very honest unless we have context don't you think? only if the the quote is to the statement that you can only find meaning with belief in god, and the person you quoted says thats not so how is it not honest from thier viewpoint? they can enjoy life without giving every little thing meaning? if there is no joy in the mundane whats the point?

What is it in my post that you think is dishonest?Brian.

quote:

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I mean, really. This is supposed to show how wonderful this person is and how this person doesn't need religion.

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IMO, you're reading more into the statement than is there. In this case, the person is correcting what she perceives to be a misconception. Because of the nature of this forum, we don't really "know" people. We can't visually see how they behave or conduct their life. We have one very limited view of their persona.Boasting or bragging carries the idea of flaunting or "puffing up".You still haven't explained why you believe these people are "flaunting" their happiness or goodness given the statements they were responding to?One reads like testimony and the other seems to be correcting an misconception.

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"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

We have this nonsense: And then there's this bravado:

Dude this sounds to me like the cry of someone wanting every one else to feel like him.When I say "I'm happy" I am not boasting but either telling the truth of lieing.Do you mean that you find it hard to believe that any one sans a god could honestly feel happy?If this is the case does it not simply point out that people are different in they're take on what makes them happy?I know someone who is not happy unless all her tea towels are hanging exactly level in her kitchen. This is a non-issue for her boyfriend but she has great difficulty seeing his perspective.I would contend this is an identical sitution.

You mean act as if the self-defined purpose is actually and objective one. "I really believe that what I do makes a difference and that this is one of the core meanings of life I teach here". For if you didn't then you would, in effect, be saying that their jobs (and hence lives) are purposeless in which case you could expect to be separated sheep and goat fashion. Defeatist talk is not welcome

Exactly.