Vast conspiracy for stupidity?

So, being an American, I've been thinking a lot lately about the fundamentalist movement and what's driving it.I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist, and I like to take a look at things from the perspective of "who gains from this". I usually find that if you "follow the money" you find a pretty clear connection of cause and effect.It seems like most fundamentalists (by population, not by influence) are living in the middle of America are lower middle class or lower in economic standing.Yet, they overwhelmingly support policies which specifically hurt them in favor of people who are doing much better.Typical issues --
1) Should we send poor middle American children to Iraq to guarentee massive revenue for Exxon? -- Yes.
2) Should we critically handicap our own children's education in order to drive them out of high paying jobs and into poverty? -- Yes.
3) Should we completely roll back any taxes on billionares and their heirs? -- Yes.Now, it's possible that the fundamentalists are completely rational and thoughtful people who are deciding that they really do need to suffer more so that the super rich can be even super-richer.However, I tend to believe that they've somehow been duped. That the positive feedback loop of evanglists and education cuts has resulted in an enormous flock of sheep who are some enamoured with the wolves that they willingly give up their lambs and pay for the privledge of the sacrifice.The question is this: How do we, the few remaining rational people, save those who can not save themselves?Or is it too late? Do we need to let them starve themselves out of existance and rebuild from the ruins they leave behind?

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.Let's show, by how we debate this topic, that both sides can be rational.Edited by AdminNWR, : add comments

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Bill Clinton, for one, has opposed the tax cuts even though his income is such that he would benefit from them. Is there also a vast conspiracy of rich liberals to pass laws that hurt themselves?I think Clinton would argue that his opposition to the tax cuts is because he wants to see a better society for his children and grandchildren. But can't it be that the fundamentalists would make a comparable argument. Isn't it just that there is a strong difference in opinion as to what makes for a better society.

Pondering casually just how many people I know personally who share my beliefs are poor or rich, it seems to me most of them are doing well enough, and I can count some doing quite well, such as business owners, lawyers and doctors. Don't have statistics at hand of course, and I can think of some poor ones too, mostly single mothers. I don't know everybody's politics though. Not sure where you are getting your statistics.As nwr suggested, political beliefs simply reflect different views of what makes for the best society.

..but best for who ...the rich bussines owners want a poor ,dependant ,passive lowerclass greatfull even to have a job and totally dependant on that job to live ,the poorest want what they havent got , but are bombarded by the media that they should have ,the lower classes what some more , a even break so that they can see their childern doing better that they did ,the middle classes want the staus quo , as they as comftable ,THEN some burke goes and lets politicians get involed , and all they want is power and the ablitity to hold on to it .... how many political partys do not review their presented policies on the bases of how electable the policy makes them .. the place gretting power above what is the right thing to do .then to let religions with a agender of their own a voice in the mix .. doooom your all dooomed i say ..why not hire some ships and sail to a new land free from the tyranny of the unelected non represenative rich classes , and with religious freedoms

True. Perhaps the fundamentalists believe that society needs a master class and a slave class - that would be consistant with Biblical teachings. Just find it hard to believe that an entire group is voluntarily setting themselves up to be the slave class.

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Typical issues --
1) Should we send poor middle American children to Iraq to guarentee massive revenue for Exxon? -- Yes.
2) Should we critically handicap our own children's education in order to drive them out of high paying jobs and into poverty? -- Yes.
3) Should we completely roll back any taxes on billionares and their heirs? -- Yes.

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They do,'t hear any of this. None of it.All they hear is:1) Democrats support those disgusting faggots trying to force our church to marry them. (a lie)2) Our sons and daughters were sent to Iraq to defend America against Saddam Hussein's terrorism against the US. (a lie)3) It's the illegal immigrants who are taking all of the jobs and committing all of the crime. (a lie)4) The Democrats are in favor of people wiping their asses with the American flag (a lie).5) Democrats support the murder of millions of babies by sluts who open their legs(a lie).Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

No, I'm sure they don't believe that. For the most part, these are highly gullible people. They have been befuddled by a sophisticated intellectual scam, and have been conned into joining an absurd 20th century cult.

To quote Stephen Cobert, (more or less):"If you mention Jesus in your speech, you are for small government {a conservative}; if you actually practice Jesus' teachings, you are for big government {a liberal}."

Hello Nuggin.You seem to be giving an assault on conservatives (or so called). Being a Conservative myself, I find a lot of this that you state not part of my personal political and moral beliefs. consider the following. Im conservative and yet do not believe in sending american youths to die for a corporate revenue, especially exxon, who caused the now infamous "exxon Valdez" oil spill. um, I dont believe in hanicapping our education of children. After seeing a little of John Stossel's report on how bad our schools are, and hearing stories of american students not even being able to identify Iraq on a map, you dont have to worry about that; The education of our kids is pretty much critically handicapped. the big time, dirty-rotten-filthy-stiknin'-rich (Warrant...) should not get any tax cuts. But when the liberal side quotes so called facts stating that the new tax cuts do so while the conservative side shows supposidly counter facts, then it is impossible for most people to find any truth about the matter.If you are trying to get people who dont believe yours views to think about theirs, then there is a saying that you should remember before trying to do so:"You catch a whole lot more flies with honey than with vigegar."Or in this case, Battery acidEdited by LudoRephaim, : No reason given.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

We've tried.Here's an example:
Me: "Hey, let's talk rationally about gay marriage. What difference does it make in your life if two people in another state are married to one another?"Subject: "Hrmm, that's an interesting question, I think that..."Fox News Bullhorn: "Those damn dirty faggots want to corrupt your children and wipe their gay all over them, thus making them gay!"Subject: "Yeah, that thing about the faggots and the wiping of the gay."Me: "Um, what?"

Lets take this to a different level. I'll post your hypothetical question, and i'll try to answer to the best of my ability. And Unlike the other person, i will not listen to "Fox Pundits" (which I cant hear anyway. No cable) My version of answer: What difference does it make for me and my life? Who cares. I myself dont count as a single person. I care about society, ie our country as a whole. Our nation as a whole counts.I'm against Gay marriage on religious grounds, but who cares about that on here? I personally put homosexuality (which I think is a poor term which should be replaced with something more accurate. Technically, women who love men are "Homosexual" yet are not considered gay)in the same criteria with Beastiality (sex with critters) Necrophilia (sex with the dead) and sex with trees (dedophilia??); Things that make me throw up. But can I do something to stop it?? Nah. I'll just watch some supreme court or president sign Gay marraige into law, and take it like a gay man: in the rear.

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

Homo does not refer to Man/Human it is the prefex 'homo-' which comes from the Greek 'homos' which means 'the same'. The term was used to refer to ourselves, for reasons which should be apparant If you want to get technical, you should be pushing for a different name for Homo sapiens!As for the vomitting thing - I understand. There are many things that make me sick, but I support people's right to do them if they cause no harm to anybody. It gets difficult when others are indirectly affected of course, which is the case in most things. Its just a matter of degree.

Not just "on here". In general. Your personal religeous views should have NO bearing on deciding the laws of the land.The Bible is very much Pro-Slavery. I suggest that a good portion of the nation would object to reinstituting that particular Biblical flavor. Just like your religeous views should have no bearing on deciding the laws of the land, so too should your gastro-intestinal views.Things that make me what to throw up include: Ignorance, Racism, Homophobia, most of the mid-west.However, I have no expectation in using state sanctioned descrimination to remove these. You said this, and it's a fine sentiment, however, the one and only point you then expressed was about how gays make you feel.If you want to argue on behalf of the "nation as a whole", let's hear some real points.My initial question goes unanswered: "What difference does it make in your life if two people in another state are married to one another?"What sort of impact does this have on your actual life? Not conceptually, but really.

don't think you'll really have to watch our president sign it into law...