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Author Topic:   The Ark - materials, construction and seaworthness
Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 16 of 231 (327204)
06-28-2006 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by iano
06-28-2006 1:07 PM


And also an application of what you are talking about is something akin to a tidal generator. Where a generator is used to harness the energy in the tides. The way it works is that the turbine is fixed to the sea floor so that water that comes in and out of the generator then moves relative to the generator. So the turbine can then turn.
If you did not fix the generator to the sea floor what would occur is that the generator would move backwards and forwards with the tide, and then the turbine would not move thus the generator would not generate energy.

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LudoRephaim
Member (Idle past 5083 days)
Posts: 651
From: Jareth's labyrinth
Joined: 03-12-2006


Message 17 of 231 (327207)
06-28-2006 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
06-28-2006 1:18 PM


Re: Does it matter?
faith writes:
signed, deluded moron
SuperNintendoChalmers writes:
Wow, you actually got one thing right for once
Why dont you watch the name calling and maybe people debating you will take you seriously. I think the forum rules talk about wisecracks and goading tactics.

"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 18 of 231 (327208)
06-28-2006 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Discreet Label
06-28-2006 1:22 PM


Pitching (front-to-back) and rolling (side-to-side). Both provide the up and down motion (perpendicularily) relative to the surface of the water needed to drive a pump.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Discreet Label, posted 06-28-2006 1:49 PM iano has replied
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 Message 72 by RAZD, posted 06-29-2006 10:17 PM iano has replied

  
Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 19 of 231 (327211)
06-28-2006 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by iano
06-28-2006 1:43 PM


You state pitch and the rolling causes would provide the motion for the ark to drive the pump.
As an extension then what causes the pitch and rolling of the ark? And how does this overall pump work in removing waste from the ark?
Edited by Discreet Label, : clarification

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 20 of 231 (327218)
06-28-2006 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by iano
06-28-2006 1:43 PM


iano writes:
Pitching (front-to-back) and rolling (side-to-side). Both provide the up and down motion (perpendicularily) relative to the surface of the water needed to drive a pump.
There have been wooden boats around for hundreds of years (and yes, all of them leak). A hundred years ago or so, there were quite a lot of them, with quite sophisticated technology. If your "perpetual motion" pump is so blessed simple, why do you suppose nobody thought of it before?

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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 21 of 231 (327223)
06-28-2006 2:14 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Discreet Label
06-28-2006 1:49 PM


As an extension then what causes the pitch and rolling of the ark? And what are you using to drive the pump?
I, like Noah, have no idea. Neither do I need to. All I need to observe is that boats roll relative to the surface of the water. Or I could note that waves cause vessels to rise and fall as they pass underneath them
I could use either phenomenon in my design:
1. a flat sheet submerged (horizontally) in the water which would translate the rolling action into my pump. The sheet would tend to resist the rolling action
2. a float which rises and falls due to actions of peaks and troughs in water levels relative to the side of the ark - whilst the larger ark raises and lowers not.
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 22 of 231 (327224)
06-28-2006 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
06-28-2006 2:02 PM


"perpetual motion" pump
Who said anything about a perpetual motion pump?

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 23 of 231 (327226)
06-28-2006 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by iano
06-28-2006 2:16 PM


iano writes:
Who said anything about a perpetual motion pump?
You did. You seem to think you can get free energy from wave motion, just like Wile E. Coyote powers his sailboat with a fan.
It has been explained to you that a boat has very little motion relative to the surrounding water (and what little relative motion there is is too randomly directed to be harnessed by simple machinery).
I ask again: if it's so simple, why hasn't it been done before?
Edited by Ringo, : Removed an extra relative.

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Discreet Label
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 272
Joined: 11-17-2005


Message 24 of 231 (327227)
06-28-2006 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by iano
06-28-2006 2:14 PM


So again if you were to start harnessing this, how would your pump harness this power. Your resistance idea is seemingly reasonable, so how does the resistence you speak of translate into energy for the pump?
(if you'd like to test this you could take a piece of wood, cut hole in the wood, slip a sheet of metal through and then attach the the metal to a pump and start some wave action in the pool, to see how much the pump may actually move, then move onto a small boat and so on...)

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SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5833 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 25 of 231 (327228)
06-28-2006 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by LudoRephaim
06-28-2006 1:41 PM


Re: Does it matter?
Whatever dude....
If you believe there was a worldwide flood in the last 600,000 years and that some dude built a boat and gathered all the world's life forms on it you have serious mental problems.
Most 8 year olds can see this is obvious BS.
I think the people that believe ridiculous crap like this should be the one's worried about being taken serious.

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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 26 of 231 (327237)
06-28-2006 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Discreet Label
06-28-2006 2:21 PM


Say we pick the sheet pump (now, now Ringo...)
A disc of say 2 metres (whatever that is in cubits) diameter is submerged (horizontally) in the water off one side of the ark. To the centre of that disc and rising vertically, we attach a nice straight tree trunk which comes up out of the water parellel with the side of our ark. This tree truck attachs at the top (via pivot) to a horizontally mounted roughly hewn beam of wood which protrudes out of side of the ark. This beam is actually a see saw - its middle being fixed to a pivot in the side wall of the ark.
For completeness sake we affix an 'eye' to the side of the ark, through which the tree trunk passes, half way between the beam and the disc
Roll the ark back and foward. The resistance of the disc to movement through the water will cause the beam to see-saw - the end on the inside rising up and down. A float would achieve the same thing
Attach this end to the pump
Commence pumping.
It works!
No shit - literally!
Edited by iano, : change perpendicular to parellel
Edited by iano, : No reason given.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 231 (327238)
06-28-2006 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ringo
06-28-2006 2:20 PM


an example to illustrate your point
On of the really great hurdles that had to be overcome to make voyaging safe and possible was "How to build a timepiece that worked at sea?" All of the motions iano is proposing were there to be used, but unfortuantely, all of that available energy actually precluded the possibility of building such a timepiece. It was not until ways were found to isolate and remove the effects of those motions, and an alternative power source was developed that did not depend on those motions that a maritime clock became possible.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 28 of 231 (327240)
06-28-2006 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
06-28-2006 2:49 PM


Re: an example to illustrate your point
I remember reading a popularized book on that subject a few years back. "Longtitude" or something it was called.
Fascinating stuff

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 29 of 231 (327241)
06-28-2006 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
06-28-2006 2:49 PM


Re: an example to illustrate your point
Did you ever see a movie called Longitude?

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 Message 27 by jar, posted 06-28-2006 2:49 PM jar has replied

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 30 of 231 (327242)
06-28-2006 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by iano
06-28-2006 2:48 PM


iano writes:
It works!
References please. This is a science thread, so I'm officially asking for evidence, links, photographs, etc. of such a pump in actual use.

Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
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