The intended purpose of the "Theological Creationism and ID" forum

is simply another opportunity for them to spout nonsense but with no chance of reasonable input. It's sad that they feel folk pick on them, but unfortunately, that comes as part of the course when you are wrong. That is the real problem, they are wrong and don't like that fact being pointed out to them.The point is that the YEC and Biblical Inerrantist positions are simply unsupportable unless they are protected in some sanitized area where facts and reality cannot intrude.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It is recognized that you hold that assumption. It happens to be wrong. Almost correct. The Biblical Creationists are not held in contempt as much as pity. It is hard to understand how people could be wilfully ignorant or how the Biblical Creationists can relegate GOD to such a picayune position and standing.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, exactly. The point is that the Biblical Creationist positions can only stand when they ae unchallenged. They cannot stand up scientifically, theologically or in any other forum. Only when they can be presented in isolation do they have any chance of acceptance.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You are not only free to make the best possible case for your point of view, you are encouraged to do so.Make your case. Present your best arguments. So far all that I have seen is "Regardless of the evidence Faith will not believe it if it does not fit within her theology."That isn't a very compelling argument.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I happen to be a Creationist. I believe that GOD created everything. I also realize though that it can never be more than a personal belief. It is not something which can be decided scientificly or this side of the grave.That does not in anyway preclude Science. The study of Science I believe is letting us actually look at the workings of GOD. When we study the TOE my reactions is "So that's how She did it!"The more I learn about this universe the more in awe of GOD I become.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This is a great place for you to present those models that YECs might use to explain the evidence seen. Some that would be Great candidates might be the YEC models for:

• fossil sorting.
• allele transmission.
• the layers of the Grand Canyon.
• Continental Drift.
• how kolas and other marsupials got to Australia.
• the distance to stars and galaxies.
• why there was no interruption of civilization or construction in Egypt during the alleged flood.
• Jamon Pottery.
• the Topper site.
• how the Appalachians were formed and worn down.

So there is a short list for you to work on. We would all be interested in seeing the models that YECs use to explain any of those and once they can be presented, we can go on to look at any of the thousands of other issues that need to be addressed before the YEC position could be taken seriously.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I don't see reading thins thread where that is the concensus, only that here would be a place where you can post even though you understand that doing so means that you realize it is impossible to get around the weight of evidence available on the science side.The evidence remains and remains just as found regardless of whether or not you can explain it. Granted, providing your models here as opposed to a thread on the Science side is conceeding that you know the position is unsupportable when compared to the normal explanation, but who knows, perhaps you can at least show that there is some theological explanation.For example, looking at the Grand Canyon we find a whole series of layers. Many of the layers are built up of smaller materials, sand, clays, mud, that must have been produced through weathering of larger structures. Then there are those places where there are signs of erosion and weathering between layers, where part of the material is worn away before more is laid down.Maybe you can provide us with the YEC model that explains how those layers were formed, how the transitions from buildup to wear down happened, how large grained materials got laid down over fine grain materials and how all the other little things like fossils were placed in the layers.You have always had two options. One is to actually try to support your position with Science. That is still an option for you. Here though you could try to use other models, to show that YEC models too can explain what is seen.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This particular thread was just a discussion of whether there was even some small justification for a Theological Creationism and ID forum. So far I see no way that ID could even be imagined as science but look around and see if one of the threads in one of the ID forums look interesting.Pull up a stump and set a spell. If you keep your feet to the fire the smoke never gets in your eyes.Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

How someone identifies themselves is often unrelated to their actual position and that can be determined by their posts.To even approach the level of Science you first need to present the designer and some way to accurately predict the future behavior of the designer.Until you have that you have nothing.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion