A timeless God can exist.

That is exactly the response I was expecting. Evolution has nothing to start with and in order to get around that you just say that the fact that you dont know where the original matter came from is irrevelant. Of course its relevant. Without the starting matter how could the matter that isnt there go bang? So the question still stands where did the original matter come from.

suppose i am studying the history of automobile design. we're looking at all the shapes that chevies and fords go through, versus japanese cars, etc.is the formation of the universe relevant to the discussion? further, since this discussion is about the formation of the universe, is the history of automobile design relevant to the formation of the universe? and the answer to that question has nothing to do with evolution, at all.

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You are saying that what you believe is based on nothing. Evolution has no foundation. Now who is being unscientific?

The starting point of the Theory Of Evolution is that life already exists. How it got there is of no interest or importance to the Theory Of Evolution.It is, of course, of great interest and importance as an area of study in its own right (called abiogenesis as I'm sure you know).

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Oops! Wrong Planet

Why then do text books teach the big bang as the beginning of the universe? Because if they do not they must accept God did it and the Bible already tells how God and they dont like how he did it so they have to come up with something to fill the gap. The only logical explination is that something or someone who is not bound by our natural laws and has always existed started life. Chance does not work for out of nothing came something is not scientific yet this is what evolutionists have to accept. This is why many Christians can be discredited. They compromised on their beliefs and threw out the first several chapters of their Bibles. If the beginning of the Bible is not true then the whole thing is unbelievable. So I propose the question: Do you believe God created it or that it all sprang from nothingness?

big bang ≠ evolution. no matter what kent hovind told you."evolution" is the variation of heritable features in a population from one generation to the next."the theory of evolution" or colloqually "Evolution" with a capital e is the study of how that above fact has affected the history of the development of life on this planet.neither of these is related to the big bang. the theory of evolution is marginally related to abiogenesis, or the origin of life. but that is a separate field. astronomy and cosmology is even further removed.it is not a "catch-all" mythology designed to explain everything without a need for god. unfortunately, the bible is not a science textbook. you've thrown out several chapters of your bible. if you'd like, in the appropriate forum, we can discuss which parts you ignore. all-or-nothing fundamentalism is a dangerous thing, petvet. it costs many people their faith.Edited by arachnophilia, : typo

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Have I been infected with an admin meme? I don't know how I find myself pondering if evolution or big bang has anything to do with the OP.PetVet is new here and probably should be given some gentle instruction about staying on topic instead of being encouraged to jump into any topic in any thread.Isn't there a better thread for this discussion? Just a thought.lfen

yes, you are right. i was starting with the "religion in religion fora" and "science in science fora" but really, the whole damned thing is off topic.

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I descibe my viewpoint on this as Triple-A - Apathetic Agnostic Atheist. To be more precise:

• Atheist
  I find the Biblical literalist view that God created everything 6000 years ago laughably implausable
• Agnostic
  Beyond that I don't know how the Universe came into being
• Apathetic
  It doesn't matter to me that I don't know, and I don't think it is of any significance in the grand scheme of things either

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Oops! Wrong Planet

Matter does not have to "come" from somewhere. There is no "conservation of matter" law. Just after the Big Bang there was no matter at all. Matter exists later when it can "condense" out of the matter fields.

...yes there is.Conservation of mass - Wikipediait's just not exactly precise. you can convert matter to energy, or example, in nuclear reactions.

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It's interesting that the man who came up with the kernel of our current understanding of evolution was a Christian.