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Author Topic:   God as the source for man's creative explosion
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 20 (299291)
03-29-2006 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
03-28-2006 6:24 PM


Re: Topic Synopsis(and Phat comments)
Thanks.
OK...the tagline of this forum states: Is evolution the source of the decline in modern morality?
But "morality" is getting slightly off topic as pertains to your thread, CS!
I saw the tag line before I picked the forum. It read to me as a suggestion and not a requirement, but I really just didn’t want to limit this to a scientific discussion and none of the other forums fit better than Social Issues.
In a nutshell, Sofer explains creativeness as a socially learned behavior
whereas Klein seems to lean towards a biological adaptation....am I right?
Yes, you are.
I think that Catholic Scientist wants to verify the philosophical arguments leading to God creating a unique spark in humans....if we can quantify such an event!
I feel that god did create that unique spark you’re talkin-bout. I wasn’t specifically looking to verify any arguments, I just saw this article and thought that it sounded like god had his hand in this one. Plus, before I read the article, I already thought that there should be some point somewhere in our past where that spark . um, sparked. Then I read this article and thought that this could be it. I’m just looking for other peoples thoughts and opinions on it. Of course, we could always just debate the philosophical arguments anyways.
Perhaps the question could be framed as Are humans unique among the animals?
I’ve had that discussion on this website before and that is not what I’m looking for. I wanted to talk specifically about the creative explosion mentioned in the article.
As far as the other stuff you wrote, it shows that you’re mature and wise and have some respectable beliefs.

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 Message 13 by Phat, posted 03-28-2006 6:24 PM Phat has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 20 (299298)
03-29-2006 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by U can call me Cookie
03-29-2006 7:43 AM


Re: Cultural origin or acceleration?
Are you thinking that maybe, it was with the advent of culture that humans were imparted a soul?
Well, more like it was with the advent of the soul that humans were imparted culture.
This creative explosion sounds to me more like an acceleration of culture uptake; since culture was present in other hominids, such as the neandertals.
Got any ideas for a cause of the acceleration of culture uptake? This coul very well be true and still be the result of us receiving the soul.
They even had burial rituals. Who knows? They may have also found religion.
I would say that they (Neandertals) did have religion, in some rudimentary form. Nothing really oranized like we have today, but definately some beliefs in non-naturalistic causes of things they didn't understand.
While i still haven't made my mind up as to the existence of a soul, a point to consider is whether or not humans are the only animals with a soul.
My belief is that we are the only animals with souls. The Bible says that we were created in god's image, gave us the breath of life, he gave us rule over the other animals, and he took our form(Jesus) to save us specifically. To me it really seems like I have a soul and I think I can feel it, although its kinda weird and hard to describe. And on top of that, I see no indication that any of the other animals have a soul.
Other religions don't feel this way. Many schools of Hinduism, posit the existence of a soul in all life-forms. So this could lead back to whether or not the Bible has the idea of a humans-only soul correct.
Yeah, I think it does. And I don't recall any teachings of Jesus that suggest that other animals have souls.

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 Message 14 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-29-2006 7:43 AM U can call me Cookie has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 18 of 20 (299404)
03-29-2006 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by U can call me Cookie
03-29-2006 7:49 AM


Re: Topic Synopsis(and Phat comments)
newscientist.com writes:
Suzuki says the analysis objectively demonstrates that the whale songs have a hierarchical syntax.
Yes, that article was interesting! I am not saying that animals do not also have forms of communication. I have had dogs and even my bird who have shown me some unique communication patterns.
I am saying that humans, with our forums, blogs, books, movies, artistic expressions, and many other behaviors are far removed categorically from the other animals. The CE seems unique to humanity and humanity alone is the only vehicle of expression to debate this stuff!

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 Message 15 by U can call me Cookie, posted 03-29-2006 7:49 AM U can call me Cookie has not replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4899 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 19 of 20 (300169)
04-01-2006 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by New Cat's Eye
03-27-2006 11:40 AM


maybe....
As you know, I don't buy the evolutionary hypothesis, but if I did, I would look to some clear area of demarcation that sets human beings apart from others. I would though count Neanderthals as fully human beings, just a tribe basically, and maybe some called homo erectus (what a name btw).
I think the whole attempt to study religious, theological and scientific truth as a whole is a good thing, but one has to remember that all scientific knowledge is very limited by technology, and so not a good starting point for various things, such as love, the soul, etc....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-27-2006 11:40 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Jonson-Needs_proof, posted 06-21-2006 4:27 PM randman has not replied

  
Jonson-Needs_proof
Inactive Junior Member


Message 20 of 20 (324492)
06-21-2006 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by randman
04-01-2006 9:28 PM


I personally tend towards the scientific so I would tend not to credit "gods" but I think CathSci has a solid question here.
I think to find your answer you must consider that we are not really so unique.
Yes we have our civilisation, communication and ability to use tools. But take a look at colonial insects (ants, bees ect.) they have civilisation just not as we might accept it. They communicate, mostly chemically as far as I know (although bees dance). Then look at many of the monkeys and apes they use sticks to fish for termites (use of tools).
If you look carefully into any aspect that you think may set humans apart from the rest of the animals you will most likely find that it is NOT unique.
Spirituality on the other hand you may argue is the big divide. Most importantly the ability to question our existence.
But without being able to communicate completely with any other animal how will we know that we really are the only ones to ask these questions?
I would suggest that you look into the behaviour and abilities of gorillas.

This message is a reply to:
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