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Author | Topic: Intended mutations | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
AdminNosy: The subject of the origin of life is not on topic when discussing the nature of mutations.
quote: That's an excellent point. It should also be added that disproving evolution does not confirm a higher intelligence as the root cause either. I recognize that and take that into consideration. However, when the day is done, there really are only two options from which to choose from. And that is, either we are the product of intent or chance. If you remove chance, you are left with only one other option, and for many, the other option is inconceivable to concede to. “There are only two possibilities as to how life arose. One is spontaneous generation arising to evolution; the other is a supernatural creative act of God. There is no third possibility. Spontaneous generation, that life arose from non-living matter was scientifically disproved 120 years ago by Louis Pasture and others. That leaves us with the only possible conclusion that life arose as a supernatural creative act of God. I will not accept that philosophically because I do not want to believe in God therefore, I chose to believe that which I know is impossible; spontaneous generation arising from evolution.” -George Wald; evolutionary biologist “Modern biologists, having reviewed with satisfaction the downfall of spontaneous generation hypothesis, yet unwilling to accept the alternative belief in special creation, are left with nothing.” -George Wald; evolutionary biologist Spontaneous generation is very much applicable to the theroy of evolution, because w/o it, it could not have gotten off the ground without some intervention of some level of intelligence. And if a Creator of some sort caused this, then why are the masses gathered together to destroy creationism? How could anyone state otherwise? It comes down to simple motivation; a philosophical one, not a scientific one. “In 1874, the theologian, Charles Hodge, asked his congregation a question. He asked, “What is Darwinism?” After a careful and thoroughly fair-minded evaluation, his answer was unequivocal. “It is Atheism.” -Phillip Johnson This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 05-07-2006 01:45 PM
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
AdminNosy: TOPIC WARNING! The discusion of the development of the eye is too large and only peripherally connected to this topic. Do NOT persue it here. (To NJ: The development of the eye is dicussed extensively here and on the web in general. If you are unaware of it I suggest that you make less pronouncements in areas that you have committed no effort to learning about.)
quote: Yeah, I've heard this quite a bit, but I disagree with it fundamentally. Any exhibition of intent indicates some level of cognizance. You could say that nature has a mind if it intentionally chooses the stronger over the weaker. Its a crap shoot otherwise, which in that case would constitute 'chance.' Playing your odds is still all about chance as well. Any which way we slice it or cleverly repackage it, it is chance if you say there is no cognizance behind it.
quote: “To suppose that the eye with all it’s inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in it’s highest degree.” -Charles Darwin After testifying to how seemingly absurd it would be for the eye to develop all on its own, he goes on to speak about it as if it were certainly true. All proof is exhausted in the struggle to prove the possibility of such a marvelous eye that to say nothing at all about the probability of such an occurrence, much less the certainty required by science, is insuperable. But for how amazingly complex the eye is, Darwinism attempts to explain it as having arose by chance. As you've elucidated, the first eye was said to have come by pigmentation in the skin, perhaps a freckle or a mole. Then, they say, rays of sunlight converged on this organism and caused a sunspot where it developed into a cluster of light sensitive cells. Then, they claim that the organism could feel the energy from the sun and so it turned towards the source. They purport that a nerve came out of it all, thus, evolving the first eye. But this is an unsubstantiated claim founded on no empirical facts. It sounds somewhat plausible, and so, its pawned off as some kind of scientific certainty. Consider this question: If evolution occurs through small gradations over time, how could the separate parts of the eye, such as the lens, retina, pupil, and whatnot, have come about since none of these structures by themselves would have made vision possible? Without all of the mechanisms in place from the organisms inception, vision is not possible. Ask anyone blinded from even the seemingly smallest accident how critical each component is to the overall function of the eye to allow vision to take place. In other words, what purpose would a partial eye serve and how should any organism benefit from it prior to its full development? What enhanced its survival, that it should have developed, and thus, evolved this feature? These are the burning questions that deserve a worthy response. This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 05-07-2006 02:37 PM This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 05-07-2006 02:40 PM
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
quote: How should I go about talking about intended mutations without using some basis for comparison? I'm a little confused on what the forum wants to see. Please forgive me, I'm still learning the rules of EvC.
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
quote: 1 in 10 to the billionth power is a ratio. If I actually wrote that out, there would be so many zeros that it would just piss every off had I done so. I think this part of the problem. ToE speaks so casually and flippantly about millions and billions of years of time or probablity factors that its virtualy unfathomable to distinguish the number 1 from the number 1 in 10 to the billionth power. Relationally speaking, you have better odds at winning the lotto 10,000 times over than reaching 1 in 10 to billionth power. That figure is nothing to scoff at.
quote: I'm sorry. No, that wasn't directed to you. I nearly finished a book just over a month ago and instead of remembering my arguments from scratch, I go back into the Word template and paste in here. That's why I have a quote for almost every post. I should have snipped that tidbit off. My apologies.
quote: I understand the theory very well. But where are the transitional forms? People keep saying to me, "There are transitional forms," but I've yet to see any. All that has ever been introduced to me, is Archaeopteryx, bacteria, and maybe Pakicetus. I object to every one of them for various reasons.
quote: Thanks for the clarification. Since I know nothing about that, I'll have to read up on it and get back to you after some analysis.
quote: “The absence of fossil evidence has been a persistent problem for evolution.” -Dr. Steven J. Gould "The interpretation supported by Eldridge and Gould is that allopatric speciation in small, peripheral populations automatically results in "gaps" in the fossil record. Throughout their essay, however, runs a larger and more important lesson: a priori theorems often determine the results of "empirical" studies, before the first shred of evidence is collected. This idea, that theory dicatates what we see, cannot be stated too strongly." http://www.blackwellpublishing.com/...ssictexts/eldredge.pdf Taken dircetly from here: Evolution - Classic Texts "We emphatically do not assert the "truth" of this alternate metaphysic of punctuational change. Any attempt to support the exclusive validity of such a monistic, a priori, grandiose notion would verge on the nonsensical. We believe that gradual change characterizes some hierarchical levels, even though we may attribute it to punctuation at a lower level”the macroevolutionary trend produced by species selection, for example. We make a simple plea for pluralism in guiding philosophies”and for the basic recognition that such philosophies, however hidden and inarticulated, do constrain all our thought. Nonetheless, we do believe that the punctuational metaphysic may prove to map tempos of change in our world better and more often than any of its competitors”if only because systems in steady state are not only common but also so highly resistant to change." -Stephen J. Gould In so many words, he said that its a metaphyisical theory based on hope.
quote: If there were thousands, then thousands would be posted on TalkOrigins. As it stands, that clearly isn't the case.
quote: And what empirical scientific data have you gathered to come up with this notion? A weaning mechanism?
quote: Yes, that's possible. But this does not serve to prove any macroevolutionary mechanism.
quote: Read Boltzman's theorem on entropic forces. If it only encompassed thermodynamic principles in a closed system, then nothing would ever deteriorate or die.
quote: This much is true.
quote: Entropy affects virtually everything and nothing in the known universe has been able to counter that. Its as solid a principle of physics as Newton's observations on gravity.
quote: You proved nothing of sort. You confused two terminalogies that aren't in any sense synoymous. In any case, I've been barred from speaking about this further.
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