What are you? EvC poll

So....your a monist. But have your doubts that hidden within some other dimention is the spirit world? I can not see atoms. I can not measure quantum events without influencing the outcome. These things are not material in the least on a quantum level. But they are not spiritual either. They do not posses a existance separate from my own. Now you go and throw other dimentions into the mix. Many worlds theory and multiple dimentions still must be either explained as part of our existance or they are not part of our universe and beyond our sphere of influence. If the latter they are moot.

... since the only stuff I have evidence for is either matter or energy and the two are one and the same. I don't rule out the existence of a lot of things like telepathy or 'spirit forces' of some sort or other - I just think that ultimately these phenomena will be shown to have a basis in some form of energy.

Sooooooo...????? a) Monist or b) Dualist? or is energy a form of spirit>This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-25-2006 03:24 PM

Maybe dualists only exist because we have yet to demonstrate or recognize just how many different forms energy can take The dimensionality issue is something else.
I think BK is talking about string theory.
But *hypothesizing* multiple dimensions is far short of demonstrating their actual existence.
I'm going to stick with only 4 until I see some real evidence.

I prefer the world "mental" to "spiritual."I'm not sure what camp I'm in.

Monist =5
Phi
Scharifinator
Omnivorous
EZscience
BrennakimiDualist=1
Brad McfallNot determined =3
Buzz
NWR
RobinrohanThis message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-25-2006 03:45 PM

i think it's entirely possible that there are things we do not currently 'see' nor understand nor can explain that are within our 'sphere of existence'. we simply don't know they are there.you're the one who is insisting that a 'spiritual realm' is outside of our existence or influence.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 04-25-2006 04:04 PM

Oh I agree with you BrennaKimi there are things that exist around us that we can not see, or understand. Just in your bed alone is a colony of dust mites living out they're existance without you even knowing they are there. (unless your allergic). Yet they are not (spirit substance.)Even atoms, (which are invisable), exist on a microscopic scale and are subject to the same laws of physics that humans are; but we can not see or understand them. Electromagnatism, gravity, we cant see it. But do we in the year 2006 call it spiritual because it can not be seen or explained. Or energy science does not know it's orgin. It is not fully understood, but we do not lable it (spirit substance.)If the spiritual substances exist and influences humans then there should be some way to gain knowlege of this other world or substance. Other than the testimony of someone like John Edwards.Of all the billions of people who have died on this planet it would seem some scientist amoung them would come forward for his or her fellow scientist.If the spirit world exist apart from our world and has no influence on humans then they're existance is moot, because we not only dont know it exist but we are unaffected by it's existance. Which for all purposes it doesnt exist to us.It seems to me the only people who have knowlege of non material or supernatural, or spiritual substances are people who never seem to have hard timestamped video or photographs, or any other objective evidence that could be substantiated. edit spelling...This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-25-2006 05:28 PM

however, in my opinion, a dimensional barrier could be responsible for this. for instace, time is a dimension. as space is expanding, the dimensions must also be. therefore, time must be expanding and in all directions. however, we only percieve it expanding forward. this is a dimensional barrier. i see no reason why the same issue may be responsible for preventing a perception of a "spirit" dimension.

I'd be a monist. That comes from my being a pantheist via Zen. I reject 'good' and 'evil' as having any existence, and that there is no split, no duality that divides them. As humans we are drawn to dualism because there is 'I' and there is everything else and this egocentric perception tends us towards dualism.

I guess you would call me a wholistic monist. That is I see one stuff, multifaceted, which includes everything existing. It's just that some of us believe we have evidence of certain aspects of the stuff which humans call the supernatural and others whom we regard as secularists deny any such evidence of that supernatural element amongst the stuff. Savvy, or do I need to digress further?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 Z Y BUZ SAW

Monist. Materialist more specifically. I see no need for supernatural forces, spirits and the like. Chemistry is what we are - nothing more, nothing less!In my mind this makes the universe MORE amazing, not less...

Ok Brennakimi, lets say for agument sake there are 11 dimentions. And within these 11 dimentions exist sub Plankian fibers or strings that make up a matrix of the fabric of reality. Vibrating the 4 fundalmental forces that manifest energy into matter (within the quantum foam of space.) Something that is of a substance that is NOT part of the STUFF that comes from these strings or what you call them; is exsiting, being manifested and created, apart from the fundalmental elements that make up nature. By definition Supernatural.
This makes no sense to me. But im silly that way.

No Buzz your right on. I like to think of the Universe being manifested as a hand of God pushing down on a balloon.
If one were to look up from within this balloon each finger pressing in would look like a mountain. Each crevice a valley, each ridge and draw all to form a landscape. Each feature very different , but all being manifested from ONE thing. Very groovy indeed. edit typo I use God, but you can insert nature or Xemo if ya like.This message has been edited by 1.61803, 04-25-2006 06:31 PM

Strategic ambiguity