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Author Topic:   Why does the USA have so many people in jail?
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 91 of 129 (303274)
04-11-2006 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ThingsChange
04-11-2006 12:15 PM


Re: illegals crimes that put them in prisons
Your angry-filled ranting and raving seems to indicate (although not stated explicitly by you) that you resent Americans having so much money, and that is not fair, and it should be taken from us and given to the billions of poor folks around the world.
of all the people who should be complaining about americans not having so much money... i live on 800 a month. that's it. so many people in this world live on more like 80 a month. i don't resent americans having money. i resent americans being selfish and WASTING the money they have. our government taxes us. our government runs on those taxes. somehow, 40% of our budget goes to defense. we're afraid of governments who spend 4% on their military. how could we possibly waste that much money. we have the highest gdp in the world and i'd assume the largest budget. holy crap.
anyways. so part of our government spending goes to foreign aid projects right? what i'm suggesting is we waste less time and money on walls between us and mexico and more money and time building up mexico's infrastructure.
the idea is not to give people money. the idea is to provide the institutions that allow people to make their own money. people want to work. but they can't work when there's so much government corruption and so little infrastructure.
you are jumping to false conclusions... typical
no i'm not. you haven't suggested one solution besides 'kick out the illegals'.
therefore, you have demonstrated that your interest is in putting a lid on the problem and ignoring it.
This message has been edited by brennakimi, 04-11-2006 03:46 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ThingsChange, posted 04-11-2006 12:15 PM ThingsChange has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by ThingsChange, posted 04-11-2006 4:09 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 04-13-2006 6:44 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5927 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 92 of 129 (303287)
04-11-2006 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by macaroniandcheese
04-11-2006 3:46 PM


Re: illegals crimes that put them in prisons
It takes two to tango.
We need Mexico to cooperate with us on a plan. Of course they'll take money, but does anyone doubt that corruption will take most of it?
By first sealing the border, and then having many illegals return to Mexico, Vicente Fox will have a problem that he does not have now. Now he has no incentive to hold back the flood. In fact his regime encourages it (example: the matricula card they now issue for ID in the USA).
Idea#1 to improve Mexico
(I think I need to put this in the other thread...)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-11-2006 3:46 PM macaroniandcheese has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 04-11-2006 8:22 PM ThingsChange has replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5834 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 93 of 129 (303320)
04-11-2006 5:18 PM


Illegal aliens should not be in prison
I don't know if this has been stated, but any illegal alien arrested committing a crime here should be immediately deported. Why should my tax dollars go to housing (at 50,000+ a year) illegal aliens in jail.
Let's leave aside the issue of arresting illegals for being here illegally for now...... I'm talking about illegals who are arrested for other crimes (theft, murder, etc)

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 94 of 129 (303357)
04-11-2006 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by ThingsChange
04-11-2006 4:09 PM


Re: illegals crimes that put them in prisons
Of course they'll take money, but does anyone doubt that corruption will take most of it?
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Hey, here's an idea - let's stop propping up the corrupt Mexican government!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by ThingsChange, posted 04-11-2006 4:09 PM ThingsChange has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by ThingsChange, posted 04-11-2006 10:27 PM crashfrog has replied

  
ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5927 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 95 of 129 (303370)
04-11-2006 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by crashfrog
04-11-2006 8:22 PM


Corrupt Mexican Government
Do you buy the following speculation?:
1. Bush and Fox made a deal: USA will tolerate illegal aliens if Mexico makes some oil deals and seals their southern border to reduce influx of South Americans into USA
2. Bush wanted a boost in economy, and cheap labor (illegals) helps.
3. Fox needs to improve his economy and crime stats if his party is to stay in power, otherwise the radical-left party is likely to take control; therefore, let the Mexican illegal aliens into USA to help Mexico economy.
I believe the Mexican election is this July. There may be some bad Fox News here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 04-11-2006 8:22 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by crashfrog, posted 04-11-2006 11:19 PM ThingsChange has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 96 of 129 (303385)
04-11-2006 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by ThingsChange
04-11-2006 10:27 PM


Re: Corrupt Mexican Government
No idea.

This message is a reply to:
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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 97 of 129 (303486)
04-12-2006 10:11 AM


Let's not forget the 'war on drugs'...
...which is essentially a war on our own people, but mostly minorities.
I think Ariana has this one nailed.
quote:
Let's face it, it's not exactly left-wing to come out against a $40-billion-dollar-a-year War on Drugs that has unfairly targeted people of color, siphoned resources from the war on terror, and pitted the government against its own people.
quote:
While blacks make up 13 percent of drug users, they account for 35 percent of those arrested for drug possession, 55 percent of those convicted, and 74 percent of all drug offenders sentenced to prison. And the average prison term for black drug offenders is 69% longer than for whites.
Just one more reason we have become a prison nation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 04-12-2006 10:41 AM EZscience has replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5834 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 98 of 129 (303492)
04-12-2006 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 97 by EZscience
04-12-2006 10:11 AM


Re: Let's not forget the 'war on drugs'...
EZScience has nailed it. The reason there are so many people in jail is the war on drugs... Easily the least successful and least intelligent domestic policy in modern history. We spend ridiculous amounts of money on this so-called war.... yet drugs are still readily available (in fact, I can easily get marijuana for far less than I pay for alcohol and I haven't used the stuff in years!)
It's funny, in Europe they treat drug use as a health issue instead of criminal issue and they have had FAR better results in reducing drug use (at least for hard drugs). I can find the studies if anyone is interested.
So basically we are spending billions a year to take non-criminals and non-violent criminals and throw them in jail where they can turn into hardended violent criminals.
Not only does the drug war fill up our prisons... it INCREASES violent crime.
In any case, I want to know what business the government has telling me what plants I can grow in my yard for my own personal use?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by EZscience, posted 04-12-2006 10:11 AM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 101 by ThingsChange, posted 04-12-2006 7:36 PM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied
 Message 104 by Phat, posted 04-13-2006 6:50 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

  
EZscience
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 99 of 129 (303502)
04-12-2006 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
04-12-2006 10:41 AM


Re: Let's not forget the 'war on drugs'...
SNC writes:
I can easily get marijuana for far less than I pay for alcohol and I haven't used the stuff in years!
Yeah, and the last time I went looking for a joint a couple years ago in Florida, all I could find was people trying to sell me crack!
From all accounts, drugs have gotten cheaper over the past 25 years than they were in the 70's - especially the harder stuff like cocaine. All we have to show for the war on drugs is more poor people in jail.
SNC writes:
I want to know what business the government has telling me what plants I can grow in my yard for my own personal use?
Heh, heh. That's why its illegal. No big business could profit from it the way they do from all their toxic synthetic pharmaceuticals. They they have been given a licence by the gov. to flog this stuff in irritating TV comercials to increase drug consumption - at public expense in some cases - but the gov. get's a big cut. You can't tax drugs people can grow for themselves. It's all about profit for the rich and powerful in this country.
This message has been edited by EZscience, 04-12-2006 09:59 AM

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Philip
Member (Idle past 4723 days)
Posts: 656
From: Albertville, AL, USA
Joined: 03-10-2002


Message 100 of 129 (303647)
04-12-2006 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Tusko
04-08-2006 5:38 AM


Re: Corruption on the Rise
A lot would agree with you, that the fear of increasing *corruption*, *iniquity*, etc. is recurring, oxymoronic, or something.
But consider:
I've witnessed Wilmington, DE and Philadelphia grow from *relatively safe* to crime-infested cities that really aren't suitable to raise families in.
Perhaps the same might be said of your experience(s) in London, I don't know.
I'm convinced (based on the evidence of increasing crime rates) that such increasing crime stems from increasing evil: i.e., "the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life".
Another evidence: Increasing divorce in England and America with its devestating *corruptive* effects upon present and future generations.
Hence, it seems to me silly to think that jail has been abused or something by the USA; its crimes seem very real.
Note: I've visited (Boaz, AL) jail weekly the last few months and seen most are drug and alcohol related problems.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Tusko, posted 04-08-2006 5:38 AM Tusko has replied

Replies to this message:
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ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5927 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 101 of 129 (303661)
04-12-2006 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
04-12-2006 10:41 AM


Re: Let's not forget the 'war on drugs'...
quote:
In any case, I want to know what business the government has telling me what plants I can grow in my yard for my own personal use?
You want to know?
I'll tell you.
You might qualify for a farm subsidy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 04-12-2006 10:41 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 04-13-2006 9:32 AM ThingsChange has not replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 102 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 102 of 129 (303773)
04-13-2006 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Philip
04-12-2006 7:16 PM


Re: Corruption on the Rise
My gut feeling is that in London there is broadly the same amount of crime going on here now than there was ten years ago. I have no idea whether that is correct or not; as is usually in these cases, my gut feeling probably reflects my own personal beliefs more than reality.
I've witnessed Wilmington, DE and Philadelphia grow from *relatively safe* to crime-infested cities that really aren't suitable to raise families in.
It sounds frightening, but how much confidence do you have in the figures you've seen?
If more crime is actually happening in these places, do you think this is the result of an upsurge in evil? I wonder what you might think a sudden glut of evil on one place might indicate. The fact is that crime rates are always going up and down: they can't do anything else, except stay exactly the same, and that probably doesn't happen very often.
If crime rates soared internationally, that might indicate something quite strange, but I'd imagine that these things average out: as crime in Philly rises, you could point to another world city that has a crime rate that is falling by a similar rate.
Personally I don't believe in evil, and instead ascribe people's actions to socio-economic factors, and the influence of their experiences. This is because I don't believe in free will.
However, I think this might be straying off topic a little. To bring it back on topic, you seem to be suggesting that America has more people in gaol because it has a population that is, on average, more evil than the population of Japan. the assumption being, I suppose, that imprisonment figures give a fairly transparent "evil" index. That's fair enough, but it does lead to some slightly embarassing conclusions: - chiefly, I suppose, that black Americans are 8.2 times more evil than white Americans.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2000/usa/Rcedrg00-01.htm
Cheerio
[edited to add a bit of clarity to final sentence]
This message has been edited by Tusko, 13-Apr-2006 11:34 AM

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 103 of 129 (303776)
04-13-2006 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by macaroniandcheese
04-11-2006 3:46 PM


The Department of Corrections is a business
brennakimi writes:
i don't resent americans having money. i resent americans being selfish and WASTING the money they have. our government taxes us. our government runs on those taxes. somehow, 40% of our budget goes to defense. we're afraid of governments who spend 4% on their military. how could we possibly waste that much money. we have the highest gdp in the world and i'd assume the largest budget.
See this topic and you will find the answer as to why America spends 40% on defense! It is due to the Military Industrial Complex!
Getting back to Why does the USA have so many people in jail?
Perhaps it is also due to another complex: The prison system as a business. The Department of corrections complex, as it were!
This message has been edited by Phat, 04-13-2006 04:46 AM

Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by macaroniandcheese, posted 04-11-2006 3:46 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 104 of 129 (303777)
04-13-2006 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
04-12-2006 10:41 AM


Re: Let's not forget the 'war on drugs'...
One thing that I find ironic about the "War on Drugs" is the fact that people can even get drugs in prison! If drugs can be smuggled into a prison, what makes anyone think that we can keep them out of the country?
OFF TOPIC, however... Unless we wish to discuss why there are so many people in jail!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 04-12-2006 10:41 AM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

  
SuperNintendo Chalmers
Member (Idle past 5834 days)
Posts: 772
From: Bartlett, IL, USA
Joined: 12-27-2005


Message 105 of 129 (303831)
04-13-2006 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by ThingsChange
04-12-2006 7:36 PM


Re: Let's not forget the 'war on drugs'...
You want to know?
I'll tell you.
You might qualify for a farm subsidy.
I'm not in support of ridiculous farm subsidies either.
Probably because I'm far from a socialist. I'm a liberal libretarian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by ThingsChange, posted 04-12-2006 7:36 PM ThingsChange has not replied

  
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