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Author Topic:   Evolution has been Disproven
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 287 of 301 (283824)
02-04-2006 4:30 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by pianoprincess*
02-04-2006 2:03 AM


Just a reference to another abiogenesis topic
PP, you might find the Is Abiogenesis a fact? topic to be an interesting read. Right now it's at just a 32 message total.
Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by pianoprincess*, posted 02-04-2006 2:03 AM pianoprincess* has not replied

ramoss
Member (Idle past 612 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 288 of 301 (283850)
02-04-2006 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by pianoprincess*
02-04-2006 2:03 AM


NOOOOO, Life did not just 'come from nothing'. There is a nice whole field of study called 'Abiogenesis' that is looking a how it might have happened. Much progress over the last 10 years has been done to understand the way simple organic chemicals react to be able to develop more complex organic chemicals. However, because the information about what actually did happen has been destroyed over the last 3.4 billion years, we can only say 'it could have happend this way', rather than saying 'it did happen this way'. There could be multiple paths that the simple organic material became complex enough to be called life. At this point,we don't know.
We do know that it is likely the earth was full of organic material. When they did a space probe to Titan, they found that the atmosphere of Titan actually had a lot of complex organic material in it. This is signifigent, since Titan is the place in teh solar system that scientists felt was the most like the early earth, and they wanted to see what titan was like. Remember, the definition of 'organic' chemicals is chemicals that include carbon. Since carbon is so plentiful, that leaves a lot of organic chemistry to be done.
So, no, at that point, apparently life did not come from 'nothing'.
This message has been edited by ramoss, 02-04-2006 09:58 AM

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Jackie
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 301 (290639)
02-26-2006 3:47 PM


Darwin's warm pond theory tested
I was wondering if this had been discussed, or posted , there is so much on the forum to read.
Darwin's warm pond theory tested
By Rebecca Morelle
BBC News science reporter
BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Darwin's warm pond idea is tested
The organic compounds cling too tightly to the clay
Life on Earth was unlikely to have emerged from volcanic springs or hydrothermal vents, according to a leading US researcher.

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Matt P
Member (Idle past 4775 days)
Posts: 106
From: Tampa FL
Joined: 03-18-2005


Message 290 of 301 (291027)
02-28-2006 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Jackie
02-26-2006 3:47 PM


Re: Darwin's warm pond theory tested
Deamer has got an interesting bit of work there, and I think his research highlights the difficulties of the hydrothermal vent origin of life. I saw him give a talk in August, and he actually said that the point of this research was to have some fun. He noted that professors can't have fun till after they receive tenure, though...
I'm more inclined towards the shallow lake/prebiotic soup hypothesis, though if we could keep some of the hydrothermal system advantages (like sulfide mineralogy and enhanced catalytic reactivity), that would assist in a number of the difficulties of the origin of life.

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carini
Inactive Member


Message 291 of 301 (294209)
03-11-2006 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by defenderofthefaith
09-11-2003 6:53 AM


Just because one guy tried to create life in a jar and couldnt do it doesnt mean it didnt happen. Give him an ocean and a 500 million years and he could probably have done something like that though.

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generaljoe
Inactive Member


Message 292 of 301 (298464)
03-26-2006 11:00 PM


by saying life cant come from non-life, are you also saying computers cant compute, because they are made out of rocks?(silicon etc)
also, life is essentially non life (atoms etc) working in an extremely extremely complex community creating an "image" of life, life itself its actions etc, are still based upon chemical reactions

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Captain Charisma
Inactive Member


Message 293 of 301 (300580)
04-03-2006 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 292 by generaljoe
03-26-2006 11:00 PM


Hi everyone. First posting so go easy on me!!!
Computers can compute, and our bodies can make chemical reactions. The difference between us is that we can procreate; a computer can't make a baby computer.
Although it is true that all things, including life, can be reduced down to the simple molecular mechanisms, only life can grow, adapt and reproduce. So there is still a fairly massive gulf between living organisms and non-living matter.

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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 294 of 301 (300581)
04-03-2006 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Captain Charisma
04-03-2006 11:57 AM


Although it is true that all things, including life, can be reduced down to the simple molecular mechanisms, only life can grow, adapt and reproduce.
Hardly as meaningful as you make it, since we define as "life" anything that can grow, adapt, and reproduce.

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 295 of 301 (300585)
04-03-2006 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Captain Charisma
04-03-2006 11:57 AM


Welcome to EvC
We're gald that you joined us.
At the end of this message you'll find some links to threads that may help make your stay here more enjoyable.

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  • This message is a reply to:
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    Captain Charisma
    Inactive Member


    Message 296 of 301 (300809)
    04-04-2006 8:53 AM
    Reply to: Message 294 by crashfrog
    04-03-2006 12:05 PM


    Confused
    I'm sorry, I don't think I know exactly what you mean. Could you explain your viewpoint and why you feel that way?

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    sidelined
    Member (Idle past 5908 days)
    Posts: 3435
    From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
    Joined: 08-30-2003


    Message 297 of 301 (300822)
    04-04-2006 9:40 AM
    Reply to: Message 293 by Captain Charisma
    04-03-2006 11:57 AM


    adamsj
    So there is still a fairly massive gulf between living organisms and non-living matter.
    However, since you agree that, "it is true that all things, including life, can be reduced down to the simple molecular mechanisms", then it stands to follow that the difference is one of relative complexity and not one of a special significance other than our personal involvement in the process of life.

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    Chiroptera
    Inactive Member


    Message 298 of 301 (300825)
    04-04-2006 9:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 293 by Captain Charisma
    04-03-2006 11:57 AM


    quote:
    So there is still a fairly massive gulf between living organisms and non-living matter.
    Viruses also grow, adapt, and reproduce. However, biologists have a lot of trouble in classifying them as definitely living organisms or definitely non-living systems. So, as wide as the gulf is, there is at least one group of things that are in that gulf. In fact, the study of abiogenesis exists to try to figure what sorts of other things might also exist in that gulf that will nicely bridge the gulf between living organisms and non-living matter.

    "Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
    -- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

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    Captain Charisma
    Inactive Member


    Message 299 of 301 (300833)
    04-04-2006 10:16 AM
    Reply to: Message 298 by Chiroptera
    04-04-2006 9:45 AM


    In saying that there is still a large gap between living and non-living matter, I was trying to neutralise the arguement that if living matter and non-living matter are all made of the same stuff, then the issue of the latter transforming into former is of little consequence.
    I disagree with this and feel that the fact that there are things like viruses that are in the middle of a very large void does not prove that organisms can go from one side to the other.
    P.S. I am not religious, but I am curious as to what point were you hoping to make with the quote?

    This message is a reply to:
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    Chiroptera
    Inactive Member


    Message 300 of 301 (300835)
    04-04-2006 10:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 299 by Captain Charisma
    04-04-2006 10:16 AM


    Maybe I don't understand your point. That has happened before.
    My point is that whether the gulf between life and non-life is large or small is a matter of perspective.
    By the way, welcome to EvC.

    "Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
    -- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

    This message is a reply to:
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    Adminnemooseus
    Administrator
    Posts: 3974
    Joined: 09-26-2002


    Message 301 of 301 (300840)
    04-04-2006 10:43 AM


    We've hit the 300 message mark - Time for topic to close
    Per stardard forum operating procedure, this topic is closing down.
    Of course, new variations on the topic can be proposed.
    Adminnemooseus

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