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Author Topic:   interesting stuff:Sheldrake's morphogenetic field?
randman 
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Message 1 of 45 (296125)
03-17-2006 12:03 AM


Question: Does this have anything to do with Sheldrake's morphogenetic field?
Yes indeed. Sheldrake's morphogenetic field is pure-and-simply a species quantum potential, created amongst the members of a species. As experiences are met by the individual members, they steadily input infolded EM structures into the "inner" EM channels of that quantum potential. Since any infolded EM wave has its phase conjugate -- or time-reversed replica -- produced and infolded automatically, a sort of "negative feedback" corrective EM signal pattern for all inputs of the bad external EM stuff exists inside the quantum potential. One can show that, for detrimental changes to the species' members, time reversal provides infolded signals that represent an exact counter to the "overstress of the species," so to speak. These "corrective antidotes" for the overstressed species, however, are in the virtual state. But as more of the same detrimental changes are experienced over generations, the countering signal structures residing in the species quantum potential will be increased over the same period of time. Gradually the hidden EM structure -- which is like jillions of little "vacuum engines" -- is changing and internally structuring the Schroedinger potential for that species.
Then one day the internal corrective charge is sufficient to breach the quantum threshold. One could also say that the spacetime potential occupied by the species members is now sufficiently curved and structured to serve as a specific-signal-pattern energetic source for genetic change. Breaching this threshold causes specific new genetic changes to occur in the entire species in a single jump. At that point, the actual genetics of egg fertilization (conception) is altered, and shortly thereafter members of the species start being born with the new change, specifically designed to counter or partially counter the former detrimental aspects in the species overstress. In a dramatic example, that's how a reptilian species can "suddenly" develop light, air-filled bones; feathers; and wings, for example, and change from a reptile to a bird in one single jump. Sheldrake's morphogenetic field is a species quantum potential and the charged-up Whittaker structure is the inducing agent.
....
.... We already know that a potential is everywhere nonzero all the way out to infinity. So the spirit of the living system is -- in the virtual state -- everywhere in the universe -- and everywhen as well. It's all a giant hologram, not only in space, but in spacetime.
The entire universe is everywhere alive, with everything. Note that if you simply examine the "ghost forms" requirement of quantum mechanics, this conclusion is inescapable. All life is eternal. Nothing is ever lost.
A thought or thoughtform is just a specific, dynamic Whittaker structure in the hidden EM channels of the biopotential. Thoughts and thoughtforms are real. They are virtual spatially, but they occupy one "real" spacetime dimension, time. Physics and metaphysics share one common, nonobservable dimension: time. So long as physics continues to have to have time, which is nonobservable a priori, then it also must contain everything that is a structure or action in time. Skeptics of parapsychology, who believe that humans are robots and the mind is just a meat computer, just have little or no foundations knowledge. And if you get carried away by the "observable, objective science" bit, remember that the choice of fundamental physical units in physics is arbitrary. You can -- and it's actually been done -- build all of physics from time as the single fundamental unit. That means that you can build the whole observable, detectable physics model out of the totally unobservable and nondetectable. Quantum mechanics long ago destroyed materialism for all time, but it just hasn't percolated through the prevailing scientific dogma yet.
http://www.geocities.com/...ands/9654/bearden/interview.html
At first I wasn't so sure about this guy, and some of his thinking is terrifying and probably wrong, but he's onto something.
I put it here because I am growing tired of debating with materialists that rely on an outdated and unscientific definition of material, and so there isn't really much opportunity for debate as there is no agreement on terms of science.
Just interested in discussion....
This message has been edited by randman, 03-17-2006 12:10 AM

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 3 of 45 (296129)
03-17-2006 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by nwr
03-17-2006 1:24 AM


Re: Silly nonsense
We see non-seperability or action at a distance with quantum entanglement so I think your claim of hidden EM channels being looney is just nonsense. Plus, I think in one way you are misunderstanding what he is saying. He is not saying there are hidden Hertzian waves. He is saying there are non-Hertzian waves. So you need to at least understand what he, and incidentally Tesla claim.
Now, Bearden does say some stuff I cannot go along with, but I think his example of vector math not distinquishing between "2 elephanes" pushing against one another producing a motionless state and "2 gnats" is actually pretty interesting, assuming that the vaccuum is not inert, and it's not, is it?

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 12 of 45 (296254)
03-17-2006 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Wounded King
03-17-2006 5:12 AM


Re: Silly nonsense
WK, I don't think anyone can really explain the mechanism of non-separability or quantum entanglement, in terms of how it happens. Maybe cavediver can explain the mechanism. From our vantage point, it appears like action at a distance, but one way people get around that observation is to say, in some manner, the particles are non-separable. The idea then that they somehow share energy is not farfetched, imo. So we have the energy existing in a shared state across distances. You tell me what that sounds like?
This message has been edited by randman, 03-17-2006 01:21 PM

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 14 of 45 (296274)
03-17-2006 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by nwr
03-17-2006 1:53 PM


Re: Silly nonsense
nwr, you do realize the guy that invented the electric motor, or the induction motor which relied on rotating electric field, agrees with Bearden, don't you? Not on everything, but Bearden is basically following Tesla's line, and Tesla invented or discovered alternating electric fields and developed the induction motor, which he eventually conceded his rights to his friend George Westinghouse to help him stay in business.
It may be Bearden is way off on some stuff, but I think he and Tesla are correct in identifying a hidden level of reality, and I think more modern physics is moving in that direction.
Over the past 100 years, lots of things Tesla said he discovered and demonstrated, such as over the horizon radar, which was scoffed at by mainstream thinkers like you, have been proven true.
This message has been edited by randman, 03-17-2006 02:08 PM

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 17 of 45 (296290)
03-17-2006 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
03-17-2006 2:14 PM


Re: Tesla
Ringo, you are misrepresenting Tesla. You are describing Edison really in the way he worked, which Tesla scoffed at since he said he could be more effective applying theory rather than just experimenting.
In terms of the claims of non-Hertzian waves through the vacuum, called aether, back then. That is a claim Tesla maintained his entire life from his discovery in the 1800s until his death in 43 or 44'. Tesla demonstrated his claims, which is to his credit, not against it.
Btw, Lord Kelvin visited Tesla and agreed that Tesla was demonstrating non-Hertzian waves.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 18 of 45 (296293)
03-17-2006 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
03-17-2006 2:14 PM


Re: Tesla
Also, the claims he didn't have much use for things he had not built is somewhat silly. First off, Tesla had an unusual capacity for envisioning things, such as particle beam weapons designs systems he offerred to the Allies in WW2, but only Stalin took him up on it. He designed the Niagra falls power plant, btw, and we are still relying on his over 100 year old first generation technology in the power grid when Tesla claimed he had already obsoleted it by 1901.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 20 of 45 (296302)
03-17-2006 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ringo
03-17-2006 2:28 PM


Re: Tesla
Ringo, are you denying that Tesla claimed to harness non-Hertzian waves, that he had a different and from his perspective, a more fuller perspective and theory on energy?
The fact he could demonstrate his theories, which people like you rejected and reject today, is not a sign he held no theories, and no, he did not merely accept existing theory, and was severely criticized because existing and current theory today for the most part denied that what he demonstrated could actually occur, which shows you something of the bigotry often of mainstream science.
I gave you the example of over-the-horizon radar which Tesla developed around 1900. All the mainstream people like you denied it was physically impossible and so just refused to accept it, period, experiments, demonstrations or not.
We actually had to rediscover it in the 1950s because of such stupidity and slander by mainstream thinkers.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 22 of 45 (296307)
03-17-2006 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
03-17-2006 2:42 PM


Re: Tesla
I don't think things like quantum entanglement are nutty, but real, observed phenomena. I also think the nuttiness is clinging to an outdated view of "material" which has essentially been redefined by quantum physics.
I'll grant you that Tesla was not a great self-promoter, and go as far as to say, perhaps mainstream science is not as intellectual pursuit as some believe it is, and that self-promotion is required, and so a poor salesman who is right may well lose out to an inferiour scientist and academic who knows how to sell himself. I do think of mainstream sciencem unfortunately, partly functions in this manner, but I hardly see how that discredits Tesla and his ideas.
Basically, financial interests discredited Tesla's 2nd and 3rd generation technology because we were just building out his first generation stuff, and it would have bankrupted that enterprise, which is incidentally the largest industry in the world.
So we still rely on Tesla's oldest technology, and we fight wars and such over scarce materials as a result.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 24 of 45 (296318)
03-17-2006 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by nwr
03-17-2006 3:12 PM


Re: Silly nonsense
nwr, Tesla was maligned out of fear of his technology, especially it's capacity to bankrupt the power grid, which was also Tesla's technology. Additionally, as one of the greatest genuises in our nation's history, he was also very eccentric, probably neurotic.
But despite his personal failings, the guy invented radio, the induction motor, the AC/DC power system we use, and invented and pioneered and an early researcher a whole host of other things such as tesla coils widely used (probably in your pc), flourescent lighting, x-rays, efficient turbines, an early key aspect of the transistor, over the horizon radar, and a system of wireless distribution of power (something I am not sure anyone knows how to do today but he demonstrated), plans for particle beam weapons, etc,...
The fact some so easily dismiss the guy when we still use his most primitive stuff, his early inventions, is very telling.
In terms of non-Hertzian waves or energy from the vaccuum, no, Bearden did not originate this, but picked it up from Tesla and others that had picked it up from Tesla. That's just a fact.
Why if we can tap the energy of the fabric of space-time (the vaccuum or aether) have we not done so? Simple, Tesla came out with it way too early.....land-line development and transmission of power (also Tesla) was still in it's infancy and too many massive financial interests had put too much money into it to lose it all just because Tesla, who had just worked very hard to prove his system was better than Edison's and they just adopted it, well now he was developing something that would bankrupt his already cutting edge technology.
The man was just way too ahead of his times, but had we as a soceity appreciated him, we wouldn't be in the energy crisis we are in today, and we'd have a lot less environmental degradation and be far more advanced technologically.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 25 of 45 (296323)
03-17-2006 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by nwr
03-17-2006 3:12 PM


read the wika link
nwr, read the link you provided.
Tesla's diary contains explanations of his experiments concerning the ionosphere and the ground's telluric currents via transverse waves and longitudinal waves.
The term "longitudinal waves" is the same term Bearden often uses and quotes Tesla.
This is how they bankrupted him. Tesla didn't worry about money because he knew he had the right patents and would therefore be due royalties, but his lab was burned down with over a million dollars lost, and then they took away his radio patents, but interestingly awarded the patents back to him after his death.....a good look at real political power in action.
In 1904, the US Patent Office reversed its decision and awarded Guglielmo Marconi the patent for radio, and Tesla began his fight to re-acquire the radio patent. On his 50th birthday in 1906, Tesla demonstrated his 200 hp (150 kW) 16,000 rpm Bladeless Turbine. During 1910-1911 at the Waterside Power Station in New York, several of his bladeless turbine engines were tested at 100-5000 hp. Later in 1907, Marconi was awarded the Nobel Prize for radio. Tesla was deeply resentful. In 1915, Tesla filed a lawsuit against Marconi attempting, unsuccessfully, to obtain a court injunction against the claims of Marconi. Around 1916, Tesla filed for bankruptcy because he owed so much in back taxes. He was living in poverty.
.......
Tesla died of heart failure alone in the New Yorker hotel, some time between the evening of January 5 and the morning of January 8, 1943, at the age of 86. Despite selling his AC electricity patents, Tesla was essentially destitute and died with significant debts. Later that year the US Supreme Court upheld Tesla's patent number 645,576 in effect recognizing him as the inventor of radio.
.
So he was made broke, and the US courts refused to uphold his patents, especially for radio, until after his death. it's quite clear what happened.
Note: he also developed if not invented radar.
Tesla, in August 1917, first established principles regarding frequency and power level for the first primitive radar units. [19]
....
This message has been edited by randman, 03-17-2006 04:03 PM
This message has been edited by randman, 03-17-2006 04:14 PM

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 26 of 45 (296327)
03-17-2006 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by nwr
03-17-2006 3:12 PM


note the following
At the time of his death, Tesla had been working on what he claimed was a teleforce weapon, or death ray. It appears that his proposed death ray was related to his research into ball lightning and plasma. After the FBI was contacted by the War Department, his papers were declared to be top secret. All of his personal effects were seized on the advice of presidential advisors, and J. Edgar Hoover declared the case "most secret", because of the nature of Tesla's inventions and patents. [22]
They took his papers for a reason.....call him mad if you want, but the bottom line is he was right on most things.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4930 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 29 of 45 (296426)
03-18-2006 3:30 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by nwr
03-17-2006 7:12 PM


serious business actually
This does not appear to discuss the morphogenetic field. That is the topic.
Untitled Document
an example of another great scientist often derided, but proven correct on some points though maybe wrong on the Big Bang or others
Because his ideas often conflicted with the generally accepted or "standard" theories, Alfvén always had trouble with the peer review system, especially as practiced by Anglo-American astrophysical journals. "I have no trouble publishing in Soviet astrophysical journals," Alfvén once disclosed, "but my work is unacceptable to the American astrophysical journals." In fact, he never enjoyed the nearly automatic acceptance generally afforded senior scientists in scientific journals. "The peer review system is satisfactory during quiescent times, but not during a revolution in a discipline such as astrophysics, when the establishment seeks to preserve the status quo," explains Alfvén.
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This message has been edited by randman, 03-18-2006 04:03 AM
This message has been edited by randman, 03-18-2006 04:08 AM
This message has been edited by randman, 03-18-2006 04:13 AM
This message has been edited by AdminNosy, 03-18-2006 10:22 AM

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