"...except in the case of rape or incest."

You're saying, "you dont need that choice,you just need a man."Women can make it on their own just like a man can. They are not inferior. And a man without a job who wont work is pretty darn usless to her.Genetically engineered super mutants...I can picture it :twisted:

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"The Nephilim where in the Earth in those days..." Genesis 6:4

The mother's responsibilities have no such convenient limits.My point is (and I hate to have to explain what my point is) that those who would deny the right to abortion ought to be willing to take complete responsibility for the unwanted children.

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Well I know what you are, but what am I? Who said anything about inferiority? Nobody, man or woman, can easily raise a child solo.The difference is that women actually bear children, and will be far more likely to get stuck in a shitty, if not impossible, situation by the arbitrary restrictions you want to impose on them.

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"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird

I disagree, why do you think that?You shouldn't put yourself in a position where the outcome could be out of the reach of your responsibility.If the outcome occurs, then you should take responsibility for the position you put yourself in. The people who are morally opposed to your method of taking responsibility, and prevent you from doing it, shouldn't have to take on your failed responsibility if you knew that your method wasn't approved of in the first place.

Agreed. Agreed.But taking responsibility for the action can include abortion. If somebody stops you from taking responsibility in your own way, surely they should take responsibility for their actions too?It's an old Chinese concept - if you save somebody's life, you're responsible for them. If you disapprove of the war, are you any less responsible for the soldiers that your country sends? I would say you are more responsible.

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If someone has an unwanted pregnancy, and then abortion is made illegal then they should be relieved of their responsibility. But, if abortion is illegal and then some has an unwanted pregnancy, they should take responsibility for their actions. The people who supported that criminalization of abortion should not be resonsible for somebody elses mistake.ABE: I read the message you replied to and see how I worded it poorly when I used morally opposed and not approved in the same sentence when I meant different things. And by 'method' I meant abortion. Just becuase abortion is morally opposed to isn't the reason I think the responsibility is on the aborter. The reason is if it is illegal, then the unwanted pregnancey should be avoided more, and more resonsibility is behind having sex. Who cares about other peoples immorals if they're not legal. I don't like that concept. You shouldn't let someone die because you don't want to be responsible for them. I don't get it. When I said the method wasn't approved, I meant that it was illegal.We shouldn't get off topic and talk about the war but I don't see how disapproving of it makes you more responsible for the soldiers nor how I am responsible for them in the first place.This message has been edited by Catholic Scientist, 03-15-2006 03:09 PM

I'd like a reply to
this post, Tal, as it asks some questions that logically and practically proceed from your proposed punative measures against people surrounding illegal abortions.And please, if you are not interested in addressing the issues and the points substantively and seriously, and instead are tempted to produce just a flippant one-liner in response as you so often do, just don't bother.

Come to think of it, Tal seems to have missed a couple of posts of mine, too. One of them was a sincere attempt to engage in an intellectual debate on an important issue, too.

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"Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

Sorry. When you said "people who are morally opposed" I assumed that you meant moral disapproval. And I was not under the impression that abortion was illegal. So... whatever happened to the concept:

quote:

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Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

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We're all responsible for each other. That's what society is all about. Sorry again. I'm Canadian. We take responsibility for our soldiers, just as if they were our own sons and daughters. I assumed that other countries were the same.Seems a propos to the abortion question to me.

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my method of taking responsibility for my actions shouldn't be bound by someone else's bullshit morals that my constitution is supposed to protect me from. it's not my religion, i don't have to follow it.

Yeah, that was my fault, I editted message 96 after reading your reply, and then reading my message, I saw how poorly I worded it. Maybe if you re-read it my point will be clearer and you can reply to that. That whole quote is support for why abortion is bad. Especially if you consider a fetus a person, at the least. I guess I could see how you're using it to support taking care of someone elses kid because abortion is illegal. But seriously, don't get all Jesusy on me just because I'm Catholic. Its not like you believe any of that stuff anyway. How do you go about taking responsibility for your soldiers?

waa-waa, boohoo.you have to follow it if its the law.

the law has to follow the constitution. and until you change the constitution, my medical information is none of your business. and when you change the constitution... i'm leaving.

I'm not saying abortion is or isn't "bad". I'm saying we need to take responsibility for each other - especially if we are the reason that "other" exists. There is no difference between creating a life and saving a life , from that life's viewpoint. Well, I don't, actually - at least as long as it can't survive outside a woman's body. We're all responsible for the consequences of our laws. If you're responsible for bringing in a law, then you're especially responsible for dealing with the consequences. I get all "Jesusy" with everybody. The principle is universal, whatever you call it and whatever you call yourself. You're pretty cynical for somebody with such lofty "morals". In fact, I do believe in taking care of my fellow humans. Whether the principle came from a god or from a fictional character, it's still a sound principle.

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yeah...sorry. Thats not true...I'm no good.Anyways, we were discussing something and now we're not. Here's where we were: What would you have typed if I didn't word it so poorly the first time?