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Author Topic:   Scientists hail discovery of hundreds of new species in remote New Guinea
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5007 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 1 of 20 (284602)
02-07-2006 2:00 PM


http://news.independent.co.uk/environment/article343740.ece
The first two paragraphs of the above cited:
An astonishing mist-shrouded "lost world" of previously unknown and rare animals and plants high in the mountain rainforests of New Guinea has been uncovered by an international team of scientists.
Among the new species of birds, frogs, butterflies and palms discovered in the expedition through this pristine environment, untouched by man, was the spectacular Berlepsch's six-wired bird of paradise. The scientists are the first outsiders to see it. They could only reach the remote mountainous area by helicopter, which they described it as akin to finding a "Garden of Eden".
{Changed topic title from "nice discovery" to "Scientists hail discovery of hundreds of new species in remote New Guinea", which is the title of the cited article. Also added the quote box material. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-07-2006 04:16 PM

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AdminIRH
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 20 (284622)
02-07-2006 2:47 PM


A bare link does not constitute an opening post for a new topic.
Please help us out here, what exactly do you want to discuss? What is your opinion on it? Have you any thoughts on other similar discoveries?
I did not read the link because what I mention above is what I should be reading, and it is sadly lacking from this OP.
AdminIRH
(AbE: of course, you may have just wanted to bring it to our attention and nothing more, but it is still very bad form - just because this is the Coffee House doesn't mean OP's are exempt from Forum Guidelines, i.e. avoid posting bare links.)
This message has been edited by AdminIRH, 02-07-2006 07:51 PM

Replies to this message:
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mark24
Member (Idle past 5303 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 3 of 20 (284637)
02-07-2006 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminIRH
02-07-2006 2:47 PM


IRH,
It's just a heads up. It is in the coffee house.
Mark

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Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 20 (284644)
02-07-2006 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminIRH
02-07-2006 2:47 PM


I changed title and added some quoted material
See subtitle. Seems to me to be what's appropriate for the situation.
When supplying (especially bare) links, one must also beware of linked pages that may not be perminent.
Adminnemooseus

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 5 of 20 (284650)
02-07-2006 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by randman
02-07-2006 2:00 PM


An excellent example of how an isolated environment with small populations can cause species formation, which is strong evidence of evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by randman, posted 02-07-2006 2:00 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by randman, posted 02-07-2006 4:32 PM ramoss has replied
 Message 8 by Minnemooseus, posted 02-07-2006 4:39 PM ramoss has replied

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5007 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 6 of 20 (284653)
02-07-2006 4:30 PM


just a heads up
Guess I should have put something more, but it's not a debate topic; hence the Coffee House (yea, I know some things are debated here, but this is just a neat story).

  
randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5007 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 7 of 20 (284655)
02-07-2006 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ramoss
02-07-2006 4:29 PM


creationism too
....which is strong evidence of evolution
Which is strong evidence for creationism as well. It certainly is not exclusive evidence for ToE and universal common descent.

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Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 20 (284659)
02-07-2006 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ramoss
02-07-2006 4:29 PM


Species formation or species preservation?
An excellent example of how an isolated environment with small populations can cause species formation...
I haven't studied the cited carefully, but I thought I'd inject something before things possibly get out of hand in a bad direction.
So, the question is, is the isolated environment causing species formation or is the isolation meerly preserving what were once more widespread populations?
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

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Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 9 of 20 (284665)
02-07-2006 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Minnemooseus
02-07-2006 4:39 PM


Re: Species formation or species preservation? (topic to be moved soon)
While the topic did start off as "Coffee House" material, I see that it's going to head the "Biological Evolution" direction.
Going to move this topic real soon. Please stand by, or you will be trying to post to a closed topic.
Adminnemooseus

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Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 10 of 20 (284673)
02-07-2006 4:52 PM


(IMO) the question is, how did the cited environment come to be as it is?
Thread moved here from the Coffee House forum.
Please note message subtitle.
minnemooseus, in message 8, writes:
So, the question is, is the isolated environment causing species formation or is the isolation meerly preserving what were once more widespread populations?
Adminnemooseus
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-07-2006 04:57 PM

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 11 of 20 (284692)
02-07-2006 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by randman
02-07-2006 4:32 PM


Re: creationism too
It is exactly what is predicted by evolution, in peer reviewed articles.
What peer reviewed articles about creationism predict it?

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ramoss
Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 12 of 20 (284695)
02-07-2006 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Minnemooseus
02-07-2006 4:39 PM


Re: Species formation or species preservation?
The isolation is what causes the speciation. That allows variations in allees to be able to be spread amount the entire population quicker. If there is genetic flow with large populations, this effect is miminized.

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Speel-yi
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 20 (284812)
02-07-2006 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by ramoss
02-07-2006 5:43 PM


Re: Species formation or species preservation?
The effect is only minimized if Natural Selection is not involved.
On the other hand, in small populations Genetic Drift can rapidly move populations away from adaptive features provided that selection is sufficiently relaxed. If enough new niches are available, it's possible that those niches will eventually be occupied by new species even though the initial impetus went against weak selection.
So there you have it: an example of Sewell Wright's Shifting Balances Theory unfolding right in front of our noses.

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matthew g
Inactive Junior Member


Message 14 of 20 (291033)
02-28-2006 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by randman
02-07-2006 4:32 PM


Re: creationism too
sorry randman, but this only proves evolution further. these animals have all adapted naturaly. evolution clearly took place.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5007 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 15 of 20 (294058)
03-10-2006 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by matthew g
02-28-2006 2:41 PM


Re: creationism too
Matthew, you miss the point if you are making that statement. The fact things evolve is not particularly good evidence for "evolution", which is the theory of universal common descent, the microbe to man story (myth?).

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Replies to this message:
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