Philosophical ramblings on the Adam & Eve Parable

erasedThis message has been edited by jaywill, 12-24-2005 08:52 AM

Nighttrain and Jaywill, You have veered off the main path.If you wish to continue your current line of discussion, please start a new thread.

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Hello, All. Here is my original topic reprinted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------- This parable has appeared in many forms and in many debates throughout many threads in this forum and other forums. I wished to add a few assertions to the mix (of this endless debate)1) Free will would not exist were we never to have fallen. I believe this because were we in communion, there would be no need for free will as communion was the only decision needed. Once you catch a cab, you no longer drive.2) God knew that humans would behave as they did. The Fall was no surprise to God.3) Genesis need not be literal. Symbolism does not refute the overall truth of God. (Nor do metaphors, nor do parables)IMHO--------------------------------------------------------------------
Rrhain has had some interesting insights into the nature of God at this topic. While I see a good Bible Study as a faith based discussion, (In other words, only believers need attend....) Rrhain brings up the other side of the coin in this well written reply.I would assert that a good Bible Study involves a unified "Spirit" and that basically there is really no need for any arguments. In Bible Studies that I have attended at church, most folks readily agree with each other and iron sharpens iron as we collectively grow in our collective interpretations---be they actual scripture or be they based in the traditions of charismatic or fundamentalist interpretations.To be sure, any academic challenges, questions, or logical and empirical studies of the interpretation of the text belong in Bible Accuracy and Innerrency. IMHO, that is.(Pretend like this discussion is going on in a big room, and that coffee and doughnuts are outside in the foyer. The choir can be heard practicing in the upstairs loft! )

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Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart, and through all human hearts. This line shifts. Inside us, it oscillates with the years. Even within hearts overwhelmed by evil, one small bridgehead of good is retained; and even in the best of all hearts, there remains a small corner of evil. --Alexander Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

Well, let us look at some of the Hebrew meanings of the words. Eden is a term that gives the idea of fertility. The garden was therefore a very fertil place, and God appears to have created Adam to be in the role of a farmer (abeit an easy task, due to it's richness.NOw, when talking about the tree of knowledge of good and evil, the translation is a bit unclear about 'good' and 'evil'. It also could be (in the hebrew), good and bad, or "weal and woe". It can be view as two polar opposites to create a whole. (something like heaven and earth).The knoweldge of Good and evil offers both pleasure and pain, higher knowledge, and the pain that comes with the need to make a moral choice.The knowlege of Good and Evil does not say that good and evil were not in the world before, it is just that man was ignorant of it. \\Indeed, God must have know what would happen, and therefore, it must have been planed from the begining. It is by the abilty to be able to choose between good and bad that allows man to be able to choose good, and become more sanctified, and be closer to god, rather than live a more mundane life. It is that which seperartes man from the beasts (well, according to one Jewish interpretation).

quote:

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This parable has appeared in many forms and in many debates throughout many threads in this forum and other forums. I wished to add a few assertions to the mix (of this endless debate)
1) Free will would not exist were we never to have fallen. I believe this because were we in communion, there would be no need for free will as communion was the only decision needed. Once you catch a cab, you no longer drive.

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2) God knew that humans would behave as they did. The Fall was no surprise to God.

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3) Genesis need not be literal. Symbolism does not refute the overall truth of God. (Nor do metaphors, nor do parables)IMHO

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Yep, a truly complicated parable.I think free will is already there, but we are adviced not to abuse it. I am trying to re-model the scenario in an alternative way,First, it's about God's words in His absence relative to Adam. I thus think more about as Bible to mankind. As Bible refers to the words of God while in His absence (relative to us) and Adam symbolically represents Mankind in my scenario.Second, by nature, the Tree with Apple itself is not something evil or else it wont be present in Eden. Yet you are adviced not to eat it for a reason, it potentially may *lead* you away from God, as after eating it, you may think that you are in an equal status with God.Ok, let me put it straight here. In this model, the Tree with apple represents *Science*. Apple is with an *nuclear*. At the moment you eat that apple you'll know about *science* and *nuclear*, in a sense of *Knowledge* and *Power*, capable of serving *Good* and *Evil* (more of an attempt to abit abstractly re-relate those highlighted terms)Now you start to explore into the *knowledge* part and are more ignorant about God's words - the Bible. Start to question God and His words with your scientific knowledge, at the same time turning away from God, and thinking that you can live without God or even that you are God.Ultimately, God allows you to do that, as a result of the granting of freewill. So a more responsible saying from Him is "He kicked you out of Eden". You are no longer in the Kingdom of God.Reality reconciliation testing of this model shows that when this *apple* drops on the head of Isaac Newton, it's an explosion of *science*. What if the *apple* drops on Adam's head, could it be a nuclear explosion, fortunately it never happened yet (but still it's quite a point to be worried about, to Adam atleast).

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I dont know how to explain it more clearly. Treat it as a madeup I wrote for you to chew about as you wish (and dont be so serious about it :wink: ).

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Oh, I by no means meant that the parable should be translated this way.

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This message has been edited by Hawkins, 03-08-2006 02:03 AM