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Author Topic:   How do you know truth?
John
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 114 (28405)
01-04-2003 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by funkmasterfreaky
01-04-2003 3:26 AM


quote:
Originally posted by funkmasterfreaky:
So those of you who don't believe we have free will never bother putting any effort into decisions?
If we have no free will then why bother?

Funk, I am not basing any actions on the idea of free-will. For one, I don't know what to make of the idea, much less whether it is true or false.
Point is... I do what I do, whatever the answer. I yam what I yam, to quote Popeye.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 01-04-2003 3:26 AM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 107 of 114 (29255)
01-16-2003 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by forgiven
12-18-2002 9:32 PM


quote:
Originally posted by forgiven:
quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
I don't know what truth is.
refreshing... i know you hate reading this schraf, but you can know not only what truth is, but the author of that truth... but you have to want to, and from my experience the desire has to be real

Why do you think you know the truth, and why should I believe you?

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 Message 62 by forgiven, posted 12-18-2002 9:32 PM forgiven has not replied

  
judge
Member (Idle past 6556 days)
Posts: 216
From: australia
Joined: 11-11-2002


Message 108 of 114 (29603)
01-19-2003 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by funkmasterfreaky
12-08-2002 6:56 PM


We know truth only by referring to an infallible authority.
As Gods knowledge is exhaustive He is an infallible authority.
Therefore we can know the truth "analogously", by "thinking Gods thoughts after Him".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-08-2002 6:56 PM funkmasterfreaky has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by nator, posted 01-20-2003 9:32 AM judge has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 109 of 114 (29657)
01-20-2003 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by judge
01-19-2003 7:43 PM


quote:
Originally posted by judge:
We know truth only by referring to an infallible authority.
As Gods knowledge is exhaustive He is an infallible authority.
Therefore we can know the truth "analogously", by "thinking Gods thoughts after Him".

How do you know you are "thinking God's thoughts"?
How do you know that the God you believe in is infallible?
(I mean, in the OT, God has to come down to earth a couple of times to find out what is going on, and he is tempted several times. Add to that the fact that he screwed up making the world so bad that he had to kill and destroy every living and non-living thing and start over, it doesn't make one very confident that the God of the Bible is all-knowing and infallible in the least.)
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-20-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by judge, posted 01-19-2003 7:43 PM judge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by judge, posted 01-21-2003 3:43 AM nator has replied

  
judge
Member (Idle past 6556 days)
Posts: 216
From: australia
Joined: 11-11-2002


Message 110 of 114 (29733)
01-21-2003 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by nator
01-20-2003 9:32 AM


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by judge:
We know truth only by referring to an infallible authority.
As Gods knowledge is exhaustive He is an infallible authority.
Therefore we can know the truth "analogously", by "thinking Gods thoughts after Him".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do you know you are "thinking God's thoughts"?
How do you know that the God you believe in is infallible?
judge:
Well...the short answer is that I deleiberately decide to accept certain first principles and then try to order my thoughts, I accept the first principles because I give allegiance to God.
So I suppose the first step is one hears about God, hears Gods call for allegiance and believes it and tries to give allegiance.
Having given allegiance, one accepts that God is who He says He is.
(I mean, in the OT, God has to come down to earth a couple of times to find out what is going on, and he is tempted several times. Add to that the fact that he screwed up making the world so bad that he had to kill and destroy every living and non-living thing and start over, it doesn't make one very confident that the God of the Bible is all-knowing and infallible in the least.)
Having confidence that God os all-knowing could not come from reading a book..LOL. I don't think confidence in any area of life comes from reading about it. I think we becoame confident through experience.
All the best
[This message has been edited by judge, 01-21-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by nator, posted 01-20-2003 9:32 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by nator, posted 01-21-2003 8:29 AM judge has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 111 of 114 (29749)
01-21-2003 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by judge
01-21-2003 3:43 AM


Well, in other words, you believe it, and that's about it.
So, am I to take it that you are not particularly attached to the Bible?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by judge, posted 01-21-2003 3:43 AM judge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by judge, posted 01-22-2003 4:51 AM nator has replied

  
judge
Member (Idle past 6556 days)
Posts: 216
From: australia
Joined: 11-11-2002


Message 112 of 114 (29848)
01-22-2003 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by nator
01-21-2003 8:29 AM


quote:
Originally posted by schrafinator:
Well, in other words, you believe it, and that's about it.
So, am I to take it that you are not particularly attached to the Bible?

Yes to the first point. Hard to say on the second, different people have different ideas about what it is. hopefully I am improving my understanding of what it is.
Hopefully i have affection for the message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by nator, posted 01-21-2003 8:29 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by nator, posted 01-23-2003 8:25 AM judge has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2282 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 113 of 114 (30016)
01-23-2003 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by judge
01-22-2003 4:51 AM


Well, alright then.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by judge, posted 01-22-2003 4:51 AM judge has not replied

  
Arachnid
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 114 (31553)
02-06-2003 3:12 PM


quote:
(I mean, in the OT, God has to come down to earth a couple of times to find out what is going on, and he is tempted several times. Add to that the fact that he screwed up making the world so bad that he had to kill and destroy every living and non-living thing and start over, it doesn't make one very confident that the God of the Bible is all-knowing and infallible in the least.)
Actually it was the people who were so screwed up, not God. God was so bummed out that his people (whom he gave free will) were doing such horrendous acts. It was not His intention that people behave the way they were.
You should be pleased that God gave everyone free will. He didn't want brain dead automatons to do His bidding, He created people with free will so that they could love Him. Love is nothing unless you are given the choice to do so.

  
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