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Author Topic:   Who's afraid of a godless universe?
JavaMan
Member (Idle past 2572 days)
Posts: 475
From: York, England
Joined: 08-05-2005


Message 1 of 49 (287196)
02-16-2006 3:45 AM


Many people feel that a godless universe would be a frightening place, vast, amoral and empty of meaning.
Others, including myself, would find a universe ruled by an all-powerful God much more unsettling, especially if that God were the despotic tyrant that Iano, amongst others here, seems to believe in.
So my question is:
Which would you find more scary, a universe without a god, or one ruled over by an all-powerful God?
This message has been edited by JavaMan, 02-18-2006 01:39 PM

The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminOmni, posted 02-17-2006 9:39 AM JavaMan has replied
 Message 3 by Adminnemooseus, posted 02-17-2006 10:27 AM JavaMan has replied
 Message 4 by AdminNWR, posted 02-17-2006 11:52 AM JavaMan has replied
 Message 9 by robinrohan, posted 02-18-2006 2:52 PM JavaMan has not replied
 Message 11 by Hangdawg13, posted 02-18-2006 3:28 PM JavaMan has not replied
 Message 16 by Modulous, posted 02-19-2006 5:56 AM JavaMan has not replied
 Message 26 by sidelined, posted 02-19-2006 10:10 PM JavaMan has not replied
 Message 27 by Omnivorous, posted 02-19-2006 10:14 PM JavaMan has not replied
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 02-20-2006 10:39 AM JavaMan has not replied
 Message 42 by jar, posted 02-21-2006 11:13 AM JavaMan has not replied

  
AdminOmni
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 49 (287577)
02-17-2006 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by JavaMan
02-16-2006 3:45 AM


Flesh it out a bit?
Hi, JavaMan.
Your PNT seems a bit sketchy.
Maybe you could take a position and provide some reasoning for it. Your position is implied by your terms--perhaps you could make it explicit and provide supportive reasoning?
Alternatively, you might outline some consequences for both possibilities.

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    Trust me.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by JavaMan, posted 02-16-2006 3:45 AM JavaMan has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 6 by JavaMan, posted 02-18-2006 1:42 PM AdminOmni has not replied

      
    Adminnemooseus
    Inactive Administrator


    Message 3 of 49 (287593)
    02-17-2006 10:27 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by JavaMan
    02-16-2006 3:45 AM


    I fear that some admin might promote a PNT with a really crappy topic title
    Despite abundant evidence to the contrary, we do like to have topic title that actually give a bit of information about the topic theme. Change it to something that really means something, via editing message 1. Do what AdminOmni said also.
    Adminnemooseus

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by JavaMan, posted 02-16-2006 3:45 AM JavaMan has replied

    Replies to this message:
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    AdminNWR
    Inactive Member


    Message 4 of 49 (287649)
    02-17-2006 11:52 AM
    Reply to: Message 1 by JavaMan
    02-16-2006 3:45 AM


    Adding my $0.02
    It isn't as if there are two universes out there, one with no God, the other with a despot - and we get to choose which one we join.
    We are stuck in the universe we are in. We can't make that choice. So I don't understand what is to be debated here.
    As AdminOmni suggested, you need to clarify the topic.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by JavaMan, posted 02-16-2006 3:45 AM JavaMan has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 5 by AdminPhat, posted 02-18-2006 3:08 AM AdminNWR has not replied
     Message 15 by JavaMan, posted 02-19-2006 3:05 AM AdminNWR has not replied

      
    AdminPhat
    Inactive Member


    Message 5 of 49 (288004)
    02-18-2006 3:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 4 by AdminNWR
    02-17-2006 11:52 AM


    A BIG Scary unknown!
    Three basic roads here.
    1) Good God
    a) Personl
    b)non-personal
    2) Bad God(Tyrant)
    a) We are grasshoppers in a flame, squirming to survive
    b) We have been abandoned to our own fate.
    3) No God. Just a humongous universe that is bigger than our dustspeck of a planet can handle.
    Which way do you wanna go? Push EDIT on your opening post and rewrite it according to the guidelines of the admins who posted above.
    Get back to us with final revision by March 1st.


    Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
  • General discussion of moderation procedures
  • Thread Reopen Requests
  • Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
    New Members: to get an understanding of what makes great posts, check out:
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  • "Columnist's Corner" Forum
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  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by AdminNWR, posted 02-17-2006 11:52 AM AdminNWR has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 10 by Chiroptera, posted 02-18-2006 3:09 PM AdminPhat has not replied

      
    JavaMan
    Member (Idle past 2572 days)
    Posts: 475
    From: York, England
    Joined: 08-05-2005


    Message 6 of 49 (288106)
    02-18-2006 1:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 2 by AdminOmni
    02-17-2006 9:39 AM


    Re: Flesh it out a bit?
    I've edited the post to give a bit more meat to the question. Is that enough?

    The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by AdminOmni, posted 02-17-2006 9:39 AM AdminOmni has not replied

      
    JavaMan
    Member (Idle past 2572 days)
    Posts: 475
    From: York, England
    Joined: 08-05-2005


    Message 7 of 49 (288111)
    02-18-2006 1:47 PM
    Reply to: Message 3 by Adminnemooseus
    02-17-2006 10:27 AM


    Re: I fear that some admin might promote a PNT with a really crappy topic title
    Done.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 3 by Adminnemooseus, posted 02-17-2006 10:27 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

      
    Adminnemooseus
    Inactive Administrator


    Message 8 of 49 (288121)
    02-18-2006 2:12 PM


    PNT promoted, with a few moosellaneous comments
    Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
    I chose to promote the entire PNT version, including the various admin comments, rather than the alternative of promoting just message 1. Offhand (non-admin mode perspective) my impression is AdminNWR pretty much said it all in his message 4:
    AdminNWR writes:
    It isn't as if there are two universes out there, one with no God, the other with a despot - and we get to choose which one we join.
    We are stuck in the universe we are in. We can't make that choice. So I don't understand what is to be debated here.
    But we shall see where this goes. Probably won't happen as such, but I see this as ideally being a short topic (10 or 20 new messages, and then close it down).
    Adminnemooseus
    This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-18-2006 02:24 PM

      
    robinrohan
    Inactive Member


    Message 9 of 49 (288127)
    02-18-2006 2:52 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by JavaMan
    02-16-2006 3:45 AM


    Many people feel that a godless universe would be a frightening place, vast, amoral and empty of meaning.
    According to my current tentative view, that's exactly the type of universe we live in. I can't tell how the other alternative would feel. One would have to experience it. A religious person might tell us how it feels from their perspective.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by JavaMan, posted 02-16-2006 3:45 AM JavaMan has not replied

      
    Chiroptera
    Inactive Member


    Message 10 of 49 (288133)
    02-18-2006 3:09 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by AdminPhat
    02-18-2006 3:08 AM


    At the risk of being off-topic...
    ...and despite this being a pre-promotion admin message, I gots to ask:
    quote:
    2) Bad God(Tyrant)
    ...
    b) We have been abandoned to our own fate.
    Why would this make God bad?

    "Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by AdminPhat, posted 02-18-2006 3:08 AM AdminPhat has not replied

      
    Hangdawg13
    Member (Idle past 1004 days)
    Posts: 1189
    From: Texas
    Joined: 05-30-2004


    Message 11 of 49 (288136)
    02-18-2006 3:28 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by JavaMan
    02-16-2006 3:45 AM


    Which would you find more scary, a universe without a god, or one ruled over by an all-powerful God?
    Both are extremely scary and depressing to me; unless, Jesus Christ perfectly represents the God of the universe.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by JavaMan, posted 02-16-2006 3:45 AM JavaMan has not replied

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    Chiroptera
    Inactive Member


    Message 12 of 49 (288137)
    02-18-2006 3:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by Hangdawg13
    02-18-2006 3:28 PM


    That would be a completely cool universe!
    quote:
    Jesus Christ perfectly represents the God of the universe.
    Imagine water turning into wine whenever you needed it!

    "Intellectually, scientifically, even artistically, fundamentalism -- biblical literalism -- is a road to nowhere, because it insists on fidelity to revealed truths that are not true." -- Katha Pollitt

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by Hangdawg13, posted 02-18-2006 3:28 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

    Replies to this message:
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    SuperNintendo Chalmers
    Member (Idle past 6086 days)
    Posts: 772
    From: Bartlett, IL, USA
    Joined: 12-27-2005


    Message 13 of 49 (288146)
    02-18-2006 4:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by Chiroptera
    02-18-2006 3:37 PM


    Re: That would be a completely cool universe!
    Imagine water turning into wine whenever you needed it!
    That would totally rock. I wonder if he can do both red and white wine? How about a nice merlot.
    The one thing that would freak me out would be all the zombies rising from the dead all the time.
    This message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 02-18-2006 04:00 PM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by Chiroptera, posted 02-18-2006 3:37 PM Chiroptera has not replied

    Replies to this message:
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    Hangdawg13
    Member (Idle past 1004 days)
    Posts: 1189
    From: Texas
    Joined: 05-30-2004


    Message 14 of 49 (288157)
    02-18-2006 4:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 13 by SuperNintendo Chalmers
    02-18-2006 4:00 PM


    Re: That would be a completely cool universe!
    Micah 2:11 If a liar and a deceiver comes saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and beer; he would be just the prophet for this people!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 13 by SuperNintendo Chalmers, posted 02-18-2006 4:00 PM SuperNintendo Chalmers has not replied

      
    JavaMan
    Member (Idle past 2572 days)
    Posts: 475
    From: York, England
    Joined: 08-05-2005


    Message 15 of 49 (288297)
    02-19-2006 3:05 AM
    Reply to: Message 4 by AdminNWR
    02-17-2006 11:52 AM


    Re: Adding my $0.02
    It isn't as if there are two universes out there, one with no God, the other with a despot - and we get to choose which one we join.
    We are stuck in the universe we are in. We can't make that choice. So I don't understand what is to be debated here.
    You are kidding me surely? You haven't noticed that pretty much every religious poster here mentions this issue at some point. Of course there's only one universe, but there are at least two radically different views of it. Isn't that what the debate here is about?

    The true mystery of the world is the visible, not the invisible

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 4 by AdminNWR, posted 02-17-2006 11:52 AM AdminNWR has not replied

      
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