Fundamentalists (of all stripes) at it again (Re: Textbook Wars: Religion in History)

How would this even be possible? If nothing else, the man nailed his reforms to the door of a freakin' church.I dunno, Buz. I was in high school less than a decade ago, and we learned about Martin Luther in full. We also learned about the formation of the Church of England, and the conversion of Emperor Constantine. (Amongst other Christian-themed topics.)The reason we learned about these things in history class was because they were major world events. We learned the reasons behind them, and the effect they had on later times. The only thing we weren't taught was religious-philosophy-as-fact. They left that to any churches we may or may not have chosen to attend.And like I say, this was all in the mid-nineties. Has there been some massive schism in education since 1996 that I blinked and missed?

I wonder if he meant Martin Luther King, who is more important as a social reformer than a religous leader (something I've never heard about Martin Luther).

If this is the case, I should also note that we were taught in high school that one of Martin Luther King's main inspirations for his method of protest was the sermon on the mount. Specifically, Matthew 5:38-48.

I dunno what he meant, Paul, but Martin Luther was no social reformer, that's for sure. I've read some scholars suggest that he helped create a general climate of reform, but he told the serfs who hoped for a better deal to shut up and obey their lords.Whatever church reforms he favored, he wanted to maintain the social status quo the Church rested upon.

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My apologies. I had intended to post two link exerpts and deciding that that would be too much, used only one. I was going by memory and the quote must have been from the other link which I have not been able to locate.It appears that rather than significant revisions, perse, the secularization of history has been more of an evolution as society in general has become more secularized. So being a gradual process, it's likely going to be difficult finding specifics but I will continue to research as I find the time.

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Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

http://www.iapche.org/ctc15-2insert.htmSurely though, they could cite his religious role in life as his vocation/calling since a whole day is set aside in his honor, and then there's Billy Graham mentioned in this study. This link, btw is from a Boston U man.

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Gravity is God's glue that holds his universe together.

The link is from the International Association for the Promotion of Christian Higher Education, not from BU. It contains an article by a Dr. Glenn of Boston University that was presented at Dordt College, which is a Christian college. The article was also supposed to have appeared in the August 2004 issue of Pro Rege, a quarterly publication of Dordt College whose website says, "the purpose of this journal is to proclaim Christ's kingship over the sphere of education."In other words, saying the link is from BU is misleading because it gives Dr. Glenn's opinions a secular weight they simply do not have. Dr. Glenn's webpage says that he has been an ordained minister since 1963.In other words, I'm not at all surprised by these words from an ordained minister speaking at a Christian college.King is usually referred to as the Reverend Martin Luther King, so of course he's a minister. I expect textbooks refer to him the same way. I lived the 60s, as did you, and King's achievements were in civil rights, not religion. He used black church's as organizing centers for his civil rights activities, not as places of worship, not that he didn't give a good sermon. He was a great leader, but his PhD thesis in theology was plagiarized from an earlier thesis.--Percy

There is a great deal of reasonable commentary in the article you linked to, Buz.For example: Unfortunately, the author did not cite the study making the claims about U.S. textbooks' handling of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. and Rev. Billy Graham.So we are left wondering how many textbooks neglected to mention MLK altogether, and how much coverage (if any) those textbooks devoted to "the Freedom Movement of the 1960s." We cannot even determine when and where the study was done, how many textbooks were examined, etc.We might reasonably ask if the textbooks describe the history of the evangelical movement without naming any individual; is that an egregious omission? If they did mention Billy Graham, did they mention his infamous role as an anti-Semitic Greek chorus to Nixon?Based on the antipathy toward MLK that persists among whites, esp. in southern states, I am especially curious about how many textbooks mentioned either man only in passing with few details, or mentioned neither, and how both correlated with region and local political climates. Did they, for example, cover MLK's opposition to the Vietnam War and other U.S. military adventures, or his increasingly sharp questioning of class structure in the U.S.?Textbooks shy away from controversial figures because they are published by for-profit corporations. Both MLK and Graham were polarizing figures who were both tremendously popular among some, and passionately hated by others. Both men have checkered records, one as an evangelical who echoed some of the worst prejudices of his time, the other as a philandering minister.If you know where the original study can be found, I would be most interested in reading it.DISCLAIMER: B.U. alumnusThis message has been edited by Omnivorous, 02-08-2006 01:43 PMThis message has been edited by Omnivorous, 02-08-2006 01:44 PM

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"Dost thou think because thou art virtuous there shall be no more cakes and ale?"
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Worse than that, when they didn't and instead rose up against the lords, he told the lords they could obtain salvation by spilling the blood of the peasants. Actually, I think he may never have thought of any alternative to the status quo. The church and state were married in his day, and he never challenged that. He created a new church, but he left the power to enforce that religion in the power of the lords, and conversion to Lutheranism was from lord to lord, with all the serfs required to follow, not from person to person.Also, every one of Martin Luther's 95 theses concerned only one Catholic practice, which was indulgences. The book A World Lit Only by Fire makes a pretty good case (IMHO) that Martin Luther's reformation was much more a tax reform than a religious one.On the other hand, both the religious and governmental effects of that Reformation were immense.

In addition, the practices of indulgences as well as other issues WERE reformed by the Roman Catholic Church during the Council of Trent. One of the other big issues was related to Absentee Bishops and that was also addressed.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The Reformation is generally not properly taught at all. First off, the theology driving the debate is not properly taught. Secondly, only 2 sides to a 3-sided debate (actually much more but 3 main divisions of thought) are presented, and the effects of the Reformation are vastly underplayed when compared to the effects of the Enlightenment.For example, specific beliefs and practices, such as freedom of religion, stemmed from the Reformation and specific people and ideas, and yet are taught as having primarily stemmed from the Enlightenment which is wrong.

Timothy McVeigh?Good grief Schraf, get a grip on yourself. You think McVeigh was a Christian?You have a lot of very serious misconceptions about life.

McVeigh was a self-confessed agnostic who was raised Catholic and accepted last rites administed by a Catholic priest before his death. His motivation for the Oklahoma city bombing was the federal action against the Branch Davidian Christian group in Waco, Texas. I think people will have to decide for themselves whether he was Christian or not.--Percy

good point