Fundamentalists (of all stripes) at it again (Re: Textbook Wars: Religion in History)

Rand, you're making this stuff up. I will continue to assert that you are making this stuff up until you provide some positive support for it. We can't prove a negative, remember? You said it, you gotta back it up.Names. Quotes. Specific references.Like, for instance - I went looking around Google for any more info. The first hit I got for "christian persecution" is International Christian Concern, which has plenty of individual stories but no actual numbers.Why should I have to do your work for you?

Please enlighten us on these instances. Are you referring to moslem Bosnians killing christian Serbians in Bosnia? I think the moslems had higher casualties. Are you referring to moslem Afghans killing christian Russians in Afghanistan? Casualties were probably against the Afghans. Are you referring to moslem Chechens killing christian Russians in Chechnia? Again I think the moslems suffered more casualties. Are you referring to moslem Iraqis killing christian Americans in Iraq? Again the moslems have suffered more casualties.Your assertion of millions of slaughtered christians need some more detail.

....but EVC is not on cable TV, it is only one of many internet forums.
I'd really like to learn of these liberal shows that openly persecute Christians (community access channels do not count, as they are local and not viewable by everyone).This message has been edited by Hal Jordan, 01-26-2006 07:29 AM

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I suppose I could quote some liberals here at EVC, but that might start a nasty fight.

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I'm sorry. Perhaps I wasn't clear, or perhaps I misunderstood what you said.You made a factual claim in response to crashfrog's statement:

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No more than liberals spew towards conservatives

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...to which I replied: See, to me is seems very much as though you were saying that there were liberals on television and radio programs in equal numbers, spewing similar kinds and amounts of hateful rhetoric that Savage, O'Reilly, and Hannity do on their programs.I am not familiar with such liberal programming, especially in TV, and so I was asking you to provide some names, networks, times that they are on, and perhaps some quotes to compare to those of the right-wingers already mentioned.Because without these examples, it would seem that your claim that right-wingers and liberals do just about the same amount of hate-spewing on television and radio would be completely without any basis in fact.So, I would ask that you please support your factual assertion with evidence, as rule #4 of the forum rules requires, or withdraw the claim.

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I think it's fairly clear that there are areas in our soceity more dominated by secularists and liberals, and that 2 of those areas are the media/entertainment industry and academia.

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So, academics, the most highly-educated people in our society, who have been exposed to many different ways of thinking about many subjects, tend to be liberal.We also know that people who have less or little education, and who have not been exposed to many different ways of thinking about things and who have lived in insular environments where their thinking is not challenged, tend to be conservative.Hmmmm...This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-26-2006 08:21 AM

And I think it's fairly clear that, like always, every one of your posts is nothing more than a chain of unsupported and erroneous assertions. America has been the context the entire time, which you know. Now you're simply retreating from more claims you couldn't substantiate. Support this assertion. Let's see an example of some of this "bigotry and hatred." ...and we see that Godwin's Law is in full effect. As is internet custom, you lose.

maybe he thinks all the aborted baby girls in china would have been christian.there is still persecution of christians. but it tends to be a symptom of persecution of 'state enemies'. this kind of thing happens in authoritarian regimes. the government decides that any organized group is subversive to government goals and destroys them. who is more organized than christians? but the same instances hold the same statistics for the slaughter of academics and political prisoners.
Amnesty International
i heard on the news in december that china had killed over 10000 political prisioners in just 2005. ten thousand.This message has been edited by brennakimi, 01-26-2006 11:04 AM

The big theme there is "New Battleground In Textbook Wars: Religion in History".I think all messages should have some direct tie in to that theme.Adminnemooseus

How can you possibly relate what Percy wrote to Christian bashing? The topic is how fundamentalists are now re-writing history and you friggen turn this into an argument about how poorly Christians have been treated in this Country. Of course, I suppose this all Haeckels fault anyway...that bastard!Let me ask you though, are you ok with this? Changing history books to paint a rosier picture of ones faith is something you agree with?Honestly, I'm not sure what your gripe is? Facts should not get in the way or religion? Or facts should not be allowed if they cast any given religion in a negative light?And why is this a liberal problem? Are you suggesting that multi-culturalism is a bad thing, and that somehow liberals are the reason behind history books not honestly portraying religion and its role in history...good or bad? Honestly randman...what's you problem?

See message subtitle.Adminnemooseus

brennakimi, it is hard to know what randman is referring to. It does make one think that he is also attempting to rewrite history in his own religion's perspective - the case discussed in the op writ small.

You must not be looking very hard. Over 2 million have been killed in the Sudan alone by Islamic jihad. In Pakistan, Egypt, and many other Islamic nations, Christians are bitterly persecuted, raped, tortured, etc,..Probably the worst anti-Christian persecution stemmed from the communists, in the former Soviet Union and Eastern bloc, but also in China (even today), in Vietnam, in Cuba, and other communist nations.

I've been looking for things on this, you are right thier are christians being killed in muslim states, but you are making it out to be only christians only, which it is not, anyone who is not a muslim is getting killed not just christians - so this is just a half-truthas for communists, it is true that christians are getting attacked in those countries, but its not just christians its anyone, and christians are attacking non-christiansso your whole christians are the largest persicuted group is a bogus claim
read for yourself - Religious exclusivity in the Christian Scriptures (New Testament)

Your ignorance is incredibly thick with confusion. First off, persecution of religious belief is not the same as persecution of peoples, except in areas like the Sudan where animists and Christians are persecuted by the jihadis. It's probably a waste of time talking with you because you evidently don't care.One of things that occurs in the Sudan or did until recently in a widespread manner was that jihadis would capture Christian girls and make them sex slaves, sometimes as young as 9 years old, and the boys they would chain up in a Madrassa-type school forcing them to memoraize the Koran, and if they would not renounce Christ, make them into slaves. Yes, they practice slavery there. Some other atrocities include cutting women's breasts off so they cannot breast-feed their babies, after spraying crops with chemicals from the air, crucifying men, using chemical weapons on villages, etc,...sometimes Moslems witnessing the heroism of Christians and their message of religious liberty for all have actually turned to fight with the Christians.Anyway, I can only speculate as to why someone like yourself has never bothered to pay attention to such slaughters.some links for you...if you care so much, do some readinghere's a good personal account I likehttp://users.frii.com/gosplow/2ffn97a.htmland a bunch of other links that you can perusehttp://home.earthlink.net/~drbettyh/Sudanpage.htm
Page not found | Persecution
Persecution of Christians - Wikipedia
http://www.barnabasfund.org/archivenews/
http://www.copts.net/index.asp
Christian Persecution Information - ...never forgetting the Christians who are persecuted
Page not found | Persecution
Sucuri WebSite Firewall - Access Denied
Sudan: The Passion of the Present: I mean all these sites come up very quickly on google, and much more, and yet you deny reality. You think the 2 million Christians and animists the Moslem fundamentalists killed in the Sudan, and the 600K-1million they enslaved is just fabricated???

My reaction to your statement is one of personal digust. What an offensive, ungodly and heartless comment devoid of any sense of humanity, dignity and morality. I suppose you can say the Holocaust killed gypsies and others too so the NAZIs were not really anti-semitic by your reasoning. I never claimed the communists and radical Moslems only kill and persecute Christians, contrary to what you claim.Why don't you take some time to read first-hand reports of what occurs to the people being persecuted and then get back to us on it.This message has been edited by randman, 01-26-2006 11:41 PM