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Author
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Topic: the modern Saduccees?
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17827 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 46 of 57 (278587)
01-13-2006 2:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 43 by randman
01-12-2006 2:24 PM
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
So in other words Jesus says that they made a big error not "knowing" the scriptures. Without specifying the details of the error or more importantly the nature of their ignorance. We can reasonably suppose that the particular error is their rejection of the resurrection and thet the lack of knowledge is ignorance of the particular passage Jesus referred to. Perhaps you can tell me where that passage can be found which should give us more insight. It is clear that there is no significant support for your opinion in the passage itself. Which seems to be the pattern in your referecnes to scripture - your major points are never really suppported by the passages you cite. So it seems that you err because you don't know the scripture. Does that make you a "Modern Sadducee" ?t
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by randman, posted 01-12-2006 2:24 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 48 by randman, posted 01-16-2006 3:10 PM | | PaulK has replied |
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jaywill
Member (Idle past 1967 days) Posts: 4519 From: VA USA Joined: 12-05-2005
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Message 47 of 57 (279381)
01-16-2006 8:01 AM
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Reply to: Message 45 by ramoss
01-12-2006 9:02 PM
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Re: Herodians
Yes they were. Ecclesiatics is skeptical about a ressurection too. For that matter, in the first 39 books of the tanakh, resurrection was only hinted at 3 times.. Two of those references are in Isaiah, and one is at the end of the book of Daniel. Altought Eziekel does mention it, it is meant metaphorically. Resurrection is not mentioned at all in the Torah, so it is a later introduction in to the Jewish religion, rather than an older one. Resurrection is also hinted at in Genesis according to a certain rabbinical student who hated the Christian church but latter became a disciple. (But we won't hold that against him). Paul, (formerly Saul the Pharisee from Tarsus), wrote that when Abraham went to sacrifice Isaac he expected that God would raise Isaac from the dead. Here is where Paul wrote that (this is of my opinion that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews, which states no explicit authoriship): "By faith Abraham, being tested, offered up Isaac: indeed he who gladly received the promises was offering up his only begotten, of whom it was said, 'In Isaac shall your seed be called'; Counting that God was able to raise men even from the dead, from which he received him back in figure" (Hebrews 11:17-19) The writer of the epistle to the Hebrews here claims that Abraham in Genesis offered up Isaac believing in the God of resurrection. But is this just a man's wild opinion? Is there anything in Genesis that may supply more evidence for this view? I beleive the answer is yes indeed. Genesis 22:4,5 says: "On the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes and saw the place from afar. And Abraham said to his young men, Stay here with the donkey; and I and the boy [Isaac] will go over there, and we will worship and then return to you" Abraham, knowing that he had to kill Isaac, thought that he and Isaac would return after the sacrifice to the young men staying with the donkey. He expected that the slain Isaac, according to God's command, would be resurrected and return with his father from the sacrifice. And I can't resist adding that the Bible specifies that this expectation was voiced by Abraham, you guessed it, " On the third day" proving once again that Jesus Christ (in His death and resurrection) is the centrality of the entire divine revelation of the Bible. This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:03 AM This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:04 AM This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:05 AM This message has been edited by jaywill, 01-16-2006 08:06 AM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by ramoss, posted 01-12-2006 9:02 PM | | ramoss has not replied |
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4925 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Message 48 of 57 (279496)
01-16-2006 3:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 46 by PaulK
01-13-2006 2:22 AM
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
PaulK, there is plenty of support in the passage. The passage explicitly states they erred greatly and their approach to the Bible in terms of spiritual things. When Jesus says they don't know the scriptures, as I already stated, it is clear that they know the letter but not the real meaning of the scriptures, and why is that? It is because of their approach to truth in rejecting spiritual things.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by PaulK, posted 01-13-2006 2:22 AM | | PaulK has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 51 by PaulK, posted 01-16-2006 3:58 PM | | randman has replied |
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randman
Suspended Member (Idle past 4925 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Re: The Error
purpledawn, good question....we can explore that question, but for this discussion, I think it's important to see that Jesus felt his point rebutted their's. Why is that if the letter is not as clear and obvious in Jesus' favor, as you suggest?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by purpledawn, posted 01-12-2006 8:02 PM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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randman
Suspended Member (Idle past 4925 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Message 50 of 57 (279500)
01-16-2006 3:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 45 by ramoss
01-12-2006 9:02 PM
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Re: Herodians
Conservative, orthodoxy and terms like that are fairly meaningless applied out of context. Plus, certainly angels were mentioned in the Bible all over the place, and they rejected that as well. But when you think about it, the conservative, orthodox folks today in terms of the current evc debate are rationalists, secularists, people that, like the Saduccees, reject the spiritual and supernatural as a means to attain truth.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by ramoss, posted 01-12-2006 9:02 PM | | ramoss has not replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17827 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 51 of 57 (279515)
01-16-2006 3:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 48 by randman
01-16-2006 3:10 PM
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
In other words your only support is something that you say is in the passage but is certainly not found in the NASB translation:
23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him, 24 asking, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP CHILDREN FOR HIS BROTHER.' 25 "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother; 26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. 27 "Last of all, the woman died. 28 "In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her." 29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 31 "But regarding the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God: 32 'I AM THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living." 33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at His teaching.
Nothing to support you there.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 48 by randman, posted 01-16-2006 3:10 PM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 53 by randman, posted 01-17-2006 10:35 AM | | PaulK has replied |
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Nasa from Creation Talk
Inactive Member
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Message 52 of 57 (279562)
01-16-2006 9:24 PM
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...For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day. -Mark 9:31 A.C After two days (The Lord) will he revive us: on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence. -Hosea 6:2 B.C Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures today and tomorrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. -Luke 13:32 A.C But the remainder of the flesh of the sacrifice on the third day shall be burnt with fire. -Leviticus 7:17 B.C For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -Matthew 12:40 A.C ...(The son of man) Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, (shall be judged); and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. -1 Corinthians 3:13 A.C ...the prince of this world cometh, (Satan) and He hath nothing in me. -John 14:30 A.C Fear not; I am the first and the last, and the living one: and I became dead, and behold, I am living forever and have the keys of death (of Hell) and of Hades. -Revelation 1:18 A.C (The power of sin is the Eternal Law of Truth, broken so all who would -can receive the blood of pass over -“for God so Loved the World he sent his...”) ...And the Word (The Law of Love - Son of God / the10 commandments as inscribes on the tablets of old by the finger of God and the ordinances given by the prophets directed by the Holy indwelling Law) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. -John 1:14 A.C “I and my Father are one.” -John 10:30 A.C (God is one with Himself.) In God I will praise his Word, (His Son) in God I have put my trust; I will not fear what man nor beast can do unto me. - Psalm 56:4 B.C Off Topic Content is hidden. The content can be viewed by using the Peek Button, but do not respond to this post.
AdminPD  This message has been edited by AdminPD, 01-29-2006 09:58 AM
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randman
Suspended Member (Idle past 4925 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Message 53 of 57 (279647)
01-17-2006 10:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 51 by PaulK
01-16-2006 3:58 PM
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
PaulK, yea, nothing there. The whole passage cannot possibly involve Jesus rebuking the Saduccees....nah!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by PaulK, posted 01-16-2006 3:58 PM | | PaulK has replied |
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PaulK
Member Posts: 17827 Joined: 01-10-2003 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 54 of 57 (279655)
01-17-2006 11:00 AM
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Reply to: Message 53 by randman
01-17-2006 10:35 AM
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
You know full well that that point is not under contention.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by randman, posted 01-17-2006 10:35 AM | | randman has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4137 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Message 55 of 57 (279726)
01-17-2006 4:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 53 by randman
01-17-2006 10:35 AM
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
Being that there is nothing left of thier teachings, this is all from the stand point of thier opponents, so of course they are going to be the bad guys as for if there are any modern sadducees, i would say no, no one shares thier philosophy, it can not be argued that evolutionists share thier view since a lot of them are christian, and believe in spirits and angels, and then there are the athiests or agnostics, who do not know if god exists much less angels or spirts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 53 by randman, posted 01-17-2006 10:35 AM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 56 by randman, posted 01-18-2006 11:08 AM | | ReverendDG has replied |
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randman
Suspended Member (Idle past 4925 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
What caused them to read the Bible and reject spirit, angel and resurrection as real, and yet assert the ethics of the Bible? Imo, there is a clear approach to truth shared by many today, and this approach is something Jesus warns his followers of that they should beware of falling into the same trap.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by ReverendDG, posted 01-17-2006 4:47 PM | | ReverendDG has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 57 by ReverendDG, posted 01-18-2006 5:51 PM | | randman has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4137 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Message 57 of 57 (279922)
01-18-2006 5:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 56 by randman
01-18-2006 11:08 AM
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Re: going to be gone for a few days, btw
who knows why they did? theres nothing left of thier writings to find out, as i said before. I figure they rejected the beliefs becuase they came from cultures they didn't trust or believe This message has been edited by ReverendDG, 01-18-2006 05:51 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by randman, posted 01-18-2006 11:08 AM | | randman has not replied |
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