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Author Topic:   free will
Mr. Davies
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 37 (27899)
12-26-2002 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by forgiven
12-26-2002 9:00 AM


Freewill?
From what I read about the god of the bible, and from what posters here and elsewhere state, that it is our free will that god gave us to find him or her. If that is the case, why does the god of the bible give free will when it does the following:
1: Drowning thousands, even infacts and unborns, instead of going to them and saying repent or suffer the consequences.
2: Hardening hearts instead of enlightening them. The Pharoah(sp?) in Exodus, the god of the bible had his heart hardened and his mind changed (sorry heart = mind so no "god didn't affect his mind" stuff).
So, if god finds it easier to kill people, harden their hearts, have his chosen slaughter other tribes (save for the virgin females who are to be used as concubines) and other not so nice things to threaten people into believing in it, what is free will for? It would seem then the god of the bible is more interested in force and fear rather than love and caring. It uses the stick and the threat of death both physical and spiritual if we fall away. Yet makes really no attempt to change our minds for the better, prefering to make people's minds even more against it or just killing them off.
Why is that?
PS:
On another thread somebody pointed out that the god of the bible was concerned about the welfare of women and children and that's why it allowed them to take wives from the enemies who they slaughtered. The problem was that only virgin females were taken. So are we agreed that this was a sexual spoils of war that the god of the bible let his followers regvel in as a reward? I guess rape is ok if your god says do.
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When all else fails, check the manual

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by forgiven, posted 12-26-2002 9:00 AM forgiven has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by forgiven, posted 12-26-2002 10:06 AM Mr. Davies has replied

  
Mr. Davies
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 37 (27903)
12-26-2002 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by forgiven
12-26-2002 10:06 AM


Well, I saw the Freewill and I assumed it was on that particular subject.
As for my misconceptions/misunderstandings about your god, I find that I most likely don't as I just use the bible to show what your god is, and it ain't pretty.
For the thread I saw that bloomed after I responded to you, I think you want to show that the causality of the Universe is so improbable that you need a creator. Well, I'd say that the arguemnet is flawed as if you think everything needs a cause, then so does your god. If you god is supernatural, it is still someplace else, even if you call it heaven. Well, where did this "someplace else" come from?
------------------
When all else fails, check the manual

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by forgiven, posted 12-26-2002 10:06 AM forgiven has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by forgiven, posted 12-26-2002 8:28 PM Mr. Davies has not replied

  
Mr. Davies
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 37 (27963)
12-27-2002 8:48 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by forgiven
12-27-2002 6:22 AM


Why?
This is an exercise in "What if?".
Is there "freewill", I say yes? I will also say that we do not need any god to give it to us.
What more is there to say?
------------------
When all else fails, check the manual

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by forgiven, posted 12-27-2002 6:22 AM forgiven has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by forgiven, posted 12-27-2002 6:35 PM Mr. Davies has not replied

  
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