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Author Topic:   Ritualised cannibalism
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 51 (27393)
12-19-2002 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by metatron
12-19-2002 2:56 PM


"So you are saying that jc said "remember me by eating this symbolic representation of my flesh and blood".
Thats still cannibalistic."
--Though paraphrased, yes that is what I'm saying. It isn't cannibalistic because cannibalism implies eating the flesh or blood, but that is not what your eating and it is symbolic of an event which had nothing to do with eating flesh. There is no cannibalistic nature to the ritual or what it is symbolic of.
-------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 2:56 PM metatron has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 848 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 34 of 51 (27394)
12-19-2002 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by metatron
12-19-2002 2:56 PM


Can I remember this right? I'll check when I get home tonight...
"And when they had supped, Jesus took bread, and broke it, and said, 'This is my body, which is broken for you. Eat it, all of you, in remembrance of me.'"
Sounds pretty cannibalistic, or at least theophagous, to me. The ritual is specifically and explicitly about "eating flesh and drinking blood," and involves a god that was "fully man" as the meal. That's cannibalism. Yes, it's symbolic, unless you're a transsubstantion fan, but that doesn't change Metatron's point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 2:56 PM metatron has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 3:51 PM Coragyps has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 51 (27395)
12-19-2002 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Coragyps
12-19-2002 3:21 PM


"Can I remember this right? I'll check when I get home tonight...
"And when they had supped, Jesus took bread, and broke it, and said, 'This is my body, which is broken for you. Eat it, all of you, in remembrance of me.'"
Sounds pretty cannibalistic, or at least theophagous, to me. The ritual is specifically and explicitly about "eating flesh and drinking blood," and involves a god that was "fully man" as the meal. That's cannibalism. Yes, it's symbolic, unless you're a transsubstantion fan, but that doesn't change Metatron's point."
--Yes it does, because in order for your thoughts on it being 'cannibalistic' to be true, you would have to delete the segment: "Jesus took bread, and broke it" What they are eating is not the flesh nor is it the blood, it doesn't even symbolize it directly. It symbolizes the event of the body being broken and the blood being shed, ie, the crucifixion.
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Coragyps, posted 12-19-2002 3:21 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Coragyps, posted 12-19-2002 3:59 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 848 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 36 of 51 (27396)
12-19-2002 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by TrueCreation
12-19-2002 3:51 PM


quote:
What they are eating is not the flesh nor is it the blood, it doesn't even symbolize it directly. It symbolizes the event of the body being broken and the blood being shed, ie, the crucifixion.
And the eating of this stuff of which he said "This is my body" is therefore symbolic of eating a Hostess Ding Dong? You are being almost astoundingly obtuse here. Read the verses. It's freakin' symbolic god-or-human flesh-eating and blood-drinking. "The Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it," to quote one of my unfavorite phrases.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 3:51 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 4:28 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 37 of 51 (27397)
12-19-2002 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Coragyps
12-19-2002 3:59 PM


"And the eating of this stuff of which he said "This is my body" is therefore symbolic of eating a Hostess Ding Dong? You are being almost astoundingly obtuse here. Read the verses. It's freakin' symbolic god-or-human flesh-eating and blood-drinking. "The Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it," to quote one of my unfavorite phrases."
--No It isn't symbolic of eating a hostess ding dong. Because it isn't symbolic of eating, eating it is a symbol of the body being broken and the blood being shed. No sort of cannibalism is here. You have the symbolism reversed, unless of course you can point me to where someone was chowing down on Christ's corpse after he came down from the cross or any other time for that matter.
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 Message 36 by Coragyps, posted 12-19-2002 3:59 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 4:48 PM TrueCreation has replied

  
metatron
Inactive Member


Message 38 of 51 (27399)
12-19-2002 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by TrueCreation
12-19-2002 4:28 PM


People have "symbolically" chowed down on jc during every ritual of communion ever carried out.
Its just a hang on from a more barbaric age.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 4:28 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 5:20 PM metatron has replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 51 (27400)
12-19-2002 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by metatron
12-19-2002 4:48 PM


"People have "symbolically" chowed down on jc "
--No, that isn't what it says.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 4:48 PM metatron has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 5:32 PM TrueCreation has replied
 Message 41 by Chara, posted 12-19-2002 5:48 PM TrueCreation has not replied

  
metatron
Inactive Member


Message 40 of 51 (27401)
12-19-2002 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by TrueCreation
12-19-2002 5:20 PM


Jesus took bread, and broke it, and said, 'This is my body, which is broken for you. Eat it.'
Its pretty self explanatory.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 5:20 PM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 7:04 PM metatron has not replied

  
Chara
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 51 (27402)
12-19-2002 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by TrueCreation
12-19-2002 5:20 PM


In the gospel of John, Jesus says he is the bread of life, the light of the world, the door, the good shepherd, and the true vine. It is obvious that Jesus is speaking in metaphors to help us to understand His relationship to us and ours to Him. In the same way, he uses the bread and the wine to symbolize that his body will be broken, and his blood poured out. Our eating the bread, and drinking the wine symbolizes our participation in his death. Did we die physically? NO! Do we cannabalize the body of Jesus? NO! Like all (at least I think all) of the Jewish festivals, food is incorporated in the celebration, symbolizing what God has done.

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 Message 39 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 5:20 PM TrueCreation has not replied

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 Message 42 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 5:57 PM Chara has not replied

  
metatron
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 51 (27404)
12-19-2002 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Chara
12-19-2002 5:48 PM


We are going in circles the mystic writings that justify and explain the ceremony are irrelevent. The eating of the sacrement which is referred to as "blood and body of christ" is symbolic cannibalism.
Why is it eaten?
Why is it called "Blood and body"?.

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 Message 41 by Chara, posted 12-19-2002 5:48 PM Chara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by TrueCreation, posted 12-19-2002 7:06 PM metatron has not replied
 Message 45 by forgiven, posted 12-19-2002 7:43 PM metatron has not replied
 Message 46 by shilohproject, posted 12-19-2002 7:47 PM metatron has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 51 (27409)
12-19-2002 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by metatron
12-19-2002 5:32 PM


"Jesus took bread, and broke it, and said, 'This is my body, which is broken for you. Eat it.'
Its pretty self explanatory."
--Exactly, so what did they eat? It sounds like bread.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 5:32 PM metatron has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 51 (27410)
12-19-2002 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by metatron
12-19-2002 5:57 PM


"Why is it eaten?"
--To remmember what Christ did on the cross.
"Why is it called "Blood and body"?."
--Because it symbolizes the event of Christs body and blood being broken and shed on the cross. It doesn't symbolize anyone eating his body.
--Where does the cannibalism come in?
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 5:57 PM metatron has not replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 51 (27415)
12-19-2002 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by metatron
12-19-2002 5:57 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Metatron:
We are going in circles the mystic writings that justify and explain the ceremony are irrelevent. The eating of the sacrement which is referred to as "blood and body of christ" is symbolic cannibalism.
Why is it eaten?
Why is it called "Blood and body"?.

you have been answered countless times... all you're doing is continuing to say that you either don't like or don't agree with the answer... once more, altho only a repeat of what others have told you
why? in remembrance of Christ
why 'blood and body'? his body, broken for us, his blood, shed for us... it is that simple

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 5:57 PM metatron has not replied

  
shilohproject
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 51 (27416)
12-19-2002 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by metatron
12-19-2002 5:57 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Metatron:
BWe are going in circles the mystic writings that justify and explain the ceremony are irrelevent. The eating of the sacrement which is referred to as "blood and body of christ" is symbolic cannibalism.
Why is it eaten?
Why is it called "Blood and body"?.[/B][/QUOTE]
Isn't it clear that this entire passage is simply metephor? This is my body...this is my blood...I love with all my heart...we were made for each other...and a thousand other examples that each of us can think up.
Isn't it up there with the "take up your cross and follow me" thing? Surely they weren't all toting around actual crosses.
It is interesting, though, how a reader who is obviously not a literalist would latch onto such a literalistic reading of a passage of scripture and form some conclusion about it.
Is this simply a stirring of the pot, or a real debate? I often enjoy them both!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by metatron, posted 12-19-2002 5:57 PM metatron has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Coragyps, posted 12-19-2002 8:28 PM shilohproject has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 848 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 47 of 51 (27418)
12-19-2002 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by shilohproject
12-19-2002 7:47 PM


I don't get into Bible-y discussions too often, but this one really is kind of interesting. Here we have a directive from a deity to practice (yes, dammit, symbolic) cannibalism or something very like it - at least eating of the deity, who happens to be in a man's form. And here we have Christians denying that this practice is even symbolic or metaphorical cannibalism. If any of us were to read about a similar ritual among the Foofoo tribesmen of Baja Oklahoma, we'd all instantly say, "Wow! A cannibal ritual!" But because that doesn't seem dignified, the Eucharist can't be one! Peculiar.
What I would really like to know is how this odd little bit got attached to a Hebrew/Greek religion, where the only cannibal I remember was Cronos - and his doings were kind of frowned upon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by shilohproject, posted 12-19-2002 7:47 PM shilohproject has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by John, posted 12-19-2002 9:44 PM Coragyps has replied
 Message 50 by shilohproject, posted 12-20-2002 3:51 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
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