The problem with this is that the question is perhaps an extremely valid one -- because it might have an answer that refutes either one of our premises in regards to what the Israelite's beleived.
Q: Can God lift a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it?
A: No, God cannot surpass his own limits -- this is why I've been stressing that God is limited by his own ability all along.
well, ok, that might be a reasonable answer. but the question at hand here is whether or not creating evil is within the abilities of god. you asserted originally that it was not. "god can't do it because it's not within his abilities" would be a tautology. i'm asserting that evil is within the abilities of god.
In this sense, it seems to me anyway, that these passages which talk about God being "almighty" should not be understood as being a reference to God being able to do "anything" -- because there are apparently things that God cannot do according to the Scriptures themselves.
Rather, it seems to be stressing that God is the "most powerful", the "Most High", the "ultimate" and that there is "none above him". In this sense, he is certainly more powerful than anything else and no one can even begin to compare to him -- no one.
But even still, even God apparently has his limits. God is his own limitation.
i think i will agree that this is the biblical position. but like i said, the question remains: is evil one of those things that god cannot do?
See, here's the thing: God already knows in advance what he will do -- he knows the beginning from the end, doesn't he?
Bearing this in mind, how can he actually have any choice in what he's going to do in the future -- since he already knows the future (including his own future)?
well, i think i was diverting from the discussion a little with my answer before. i don't think that the god of torah is omniscient. i don't actually see omni-anything about him, he does seem very limited.
so perhaps god DOES have a choice precisely because he is limited in some regards.
In this sense, this is an example of a possible limitation of God -- in the same way that he cannot create a stone so heavy that even he cannot lift it, he likewise cannot overpower himself to the point that he's not doing his own will (he must follow his own destiny which he foreknew would happen).
moot, really. one's actions are defined by their will. one cannot do something that is against their will (coercion excluded).
You said above that I'm sort of assuming that there is only one path of action that can unfold -- and you're correct on this. But I don't think you're understanding why I've said that.
Certainly there "were" a multitude of various possibilities from the beginning -- he could look down the various path of different outcomes of subsequent choices as you noted above. But, since he already knows what's going to happen, there is no other choice.
why? because he'd know which path he would take? ok, i think i get that. i guess my comment is really moot, but i suspect this whole section of debate is. the god of the torah does not seem to be omniscient:
Yes, and I've been searching through the Scriptures in regards to this. I've already noted that you're assuming that this repentance is always a turning from sin. But God can repent from doing good too -- so it does work both ways.
it has nothing to do with good or bad, or with sin. the point was that god can do something that god considers to be a mistake. the god of the old testiment is apparently fallible.
i don't see how one could be fallible and omniscient. you are asserting, basically that god has no free will? so he HAD to make the mistake because he was going to? how is that not god overpowering himself, and forcing himself into a course of action?
i dunno. that's a heck of a reading, i'm not sure i can say anything against it since it's self-confirming.
Simple: Because it was "good" to do it in the first place.
so the means justifies the ends? the road to hell is paved with good intentions, they say. but seriously. if god knew he was going to regret something later, why do it? i don't see a way to read this that doesn't either make god much more human than traditionally thought, or completely mechanical.
The questions remians though: Does God himself have a choice -- can God change the future which he himself has seen?
well, right now this is just going to be a battle of personal opinions. both are consistent with themselves and probably explain the text.
how about we figure out if god sees the future, or rather ALL of the future?
אָרַח
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