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Author Topic:   Scientific errors in the Bible
w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6184 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 106 of 163 (25471)
12-04-2002 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by joz
12-04-2002 4:24 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joz:
It is...
Try this explanation Object not found!
Look through all 3 sections and then work through the math yourself...
The link provides a solution for determining the value of the eccentricity but it does not provide an explanation for the cause of the eccentricity. Can you tell me why the planetary orbits are eliptical?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by joz, posted 12-04-2002 4:24 PM joz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by joz, posted 12-04-2002 6:44 PM w_fortenberry has not replied
 Message 109 by John, posted 12-05-2002 12:10 AM w_fortenberry has not replied

  
joz
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 163 (25476)
12-04-2002 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by w_fortenberry
12-04-2002 6:19 PM


You can work it out yourself...
Just look at the final formula for e and work out what would give you e > 0.....
Its not hard...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-04-2002 6:19 PM w_fortenberry has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22605
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 108 of 163 (25482)
12-04-2002 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by w_fortenberry
12-01-2002 3:28 PM


w_fortenberry writes:
I have not claimed such ignorance [of common knowledge].
Sure you have. You claim to be unaware of any evidence against geocentric theory. If I recall my school years correctly, the information you're asking about was presented three times in three different grades in increasing detail. Did you not attend school?
I guess you're not going to tell us why you're asking endless questions about things you already know, but I see no point in replying until you respond to some of the data already presented. For example, you were offered the evidence that spacecraft find their way to where we send them, and star parallax, but you show no interest in discussing or even acknowledging this evidence. You just ignore it and ask another question. I don't see the point in offering you more responses to ignore.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-01-2002 3:28 PM w_fortenberry has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-08-2002 3:50 PM Percy has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 163 (25510)
12-05-2002 12:10 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by w_fortenberry
12-04-2002 6:19 PM


quote:
Originally posted by w_fortenberry:
Can you tell me why the planetary orbits are eliptical?
The early solar system was chaotic. The planets formed from dust and debris. Planetoids smashed together and fused, or chipped off bits of one another. This messy transfer of momentum isn't likely to produce a circular orbit. Circular orbits are, in fact, quite tricky to produce. All of the variables have to be just right-- velocity, direction, altitude, etc. Elipticals are less tricky.
Even today the gravitational interactions of the planets would prevent a planet from keeping a perfectly circular orbit. In other words, a circular orbit would get screwed up by the gravitational tugs of the other planets.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-04-2002 6:19 PM w_fortenberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by joetate18please, posted 12-07-2002 6:29 PM John has replied

  
zipzip
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 163 (25523)
12-05-2002 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by w_fortenberry
12-01-2002 3:28 PM


This whole part of the thread sounds a little like:
(opening credits... suspenseful music...narrator) HAL9000, questioning its creators, desperate and driven by an insatiable desire to learn, tortured by programming it did not choose and cannot ignore... (cue jaws theme -- da da, da da) save yourselves! (screams and chaotic camera work...fade out...curtain...applause...bathroom break)
No offense, maybe just too much orbital mechanics in a thread that started talking about four-legged insects and cud-chewing rabbits.
[This message has been edited by zipzip, 12-05-2002]
[This message has been edited by zipzip, 12-05-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-01-2002 3:28 PM w_fortenberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Mr. Davies, posted 12-06-2002 11:41 PM zipzip has not replied

  
Mr. Davies
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 163 (25794)
12-06-2002 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by zipzip
12-05-2002 2:56 AM


Now, as all of the Evilutionists lay vanquished at his feet, another satisfied Bible Believing Man walks away, bathed in the soft glow of Heaven's Holy Light.
A "Sophist"? What are other forms of tricks one can play to make the opposing side want to vomit?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by zipzip, posted 12-05-2002 2:56 AM zipzip has not replied

  
joetate18please
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 163 (25867)
12-07-2002 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by John
12-05-2002 12:10 AM


I have to disagree. I believe the way the planets are orbiting and their design
and structure is not from a few bumps and bangs just "happening". If there are
a few things that I have never had explained to me, they are these two points:


  • When was the first bump?
  • When did the first life organism appear?
  • AND HOW?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by John, posted 12-05-2002 12:10 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by gene90, posted 12-07-2002 6:31 PM joetate18please has replied
 Message 116 by John, posted 12-08-2002 11:10 AM joetate18please has not replied
 Message 117 by forgiven, posted 12-08-2002 12:33 PM joetate18please has not replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3899 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 113 of 163 (25868)
12-07-2002 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by joetate18please
12-07-2002 6:29 PM


[QUOTE][B]I believe the way the planets are orbiting and their design [/QUOTE][/B]
Why? There are completely naturalistic explanations for both.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by joetate18please, posted 12-07-2002 6:29 PM joetate18please has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by forgiven, posted 12-07-2002 6:45 PM gene90 has not replied
 Message 115 by joetate18please, posted 12-07-2002 7:03 PM gene90 has replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 163 (25871)
12-07-2002 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by gene90
12-07-2002 6:31 PM


quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][B]I believe the way the planets are orbiting and their design [/QUOTE][/B]
Why? There are completely naturalistic explanations for both.

gene, i'm sure you're correct about this but for those of us who are also interested in possible answers, can you give us more of your thoughts? the above seems somewhat light

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by gene90, posted 12-07-2002 6:31 PM gene90 has not replied

  
joetate18please
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 163 (25873)
12-07-2002 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by gene90
12-07-2002 6:31 PM


That is great... please explain it. I am at a loss for the understanding and if there is an explanation then I would love to hear it. If you have a book you want to suggest, great... or please explain it here.
quote:
Originally posted by gene90:
[QUOTE][B]I believe the way the planets are orbiting and their design [/QUOTE][/B]
Why? There are completely naturalistic explanations for both.

Thank you for your time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by gene90, posted 12-07-2002 6:31 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by gene90, posted 01-01-2003 8:39 PM joetate18please has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 163 (25933)
12-08-2002 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by joetate18please
12-07-2002 6:29 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joetate18please:
I have to disagree. I believe the way the planets are orbiting and their design and structure is not from a few bumps and bangs just "happening".
Why? There is nothing magical about the structures of the planets or their orbits. It can all be explained, more or less.
quote:
When was the first bump?
Sometime before the clouds of gas condensed. Why does this matter?
quote:
When did the first life organism appear?
What does this have to do with planetary orbits and origins?
quote:
AND HOW?
How did life get started? No one has a clear answer at the moment. What does this have to do with planets?
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by joetate18please, posted 12-07-2002 6:29 PM joetate18please has not replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 163 (25941)
12-08-2002 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by joetate18please
12-07-2002 6:29 PM


quote:
Originally posted by joetate18please:
I have to disagree. I believe the way the planets are orbiting and their design
and structure is not from a few bumps and bangs just "happening". If there are
a few things that I have never had explained to me, they are these two points:


  • When was the first bump?
  • When did the first life organism appear?
  • AND HOW?


[begin tongue in cheek] all that we know, all that we can witness or perceive or postulate from what we have observed points to our solar system (the universe actually, but let's limit our thoughts for the moment) being one big accident...
gases cooled into solids which ricocheted off one another again and again, gravity eventually pulled these masses into orbits more or less as we see them, these accidental "bumps" resulted in all things being perfect for life to form spontaneously on an earth that was perfectly positioned from the heat, energy, and gravitational sources of our sun and moon...
this life had as its origin bacteria contained in space dust (possibly)... the chemical reactions necessary for turning this bacteria into the myriad "kinds" of life forms on earth were themselves the result of all prior accidents... the bacteria itself .. well, i'm not real sure about that but i just believe it, you know? it's easier for me to believe that life came from nothing and order from chaos and information from non-information than it is to believe there is a creator who planned all of this and who implimented that plan [end tongue in cheek]
good questions joe.. don't hold your breath for answers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by joetate18please, posted 12-07-2002 6:29 PM joetate18please has not replied

  
w_fortenberry
Member (Idle past 6184 days)
Posts: 178
From: Birmingham, AL, USA
Joined: 04-19-2002


Message 118 of 163 (25951)
12-08-2002 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Percy
12-04-2002 7:02 PM


Percipient writes:
I see no point in replying until you respond to some of the data already presented. For example, you were offered the evidence that spacecraft find their way to where we send them, and star parallax, but you show no interest in discussing or even acknowledging this evidence. You just ignore it and ask another question. I don't see the point in offering you more responses to ignore.
The evidence you are referring to is found in posts 58 and 81 and was presented by Karl and Coragyps respectively. In niether post did I find supporting arguments for that evidence. In contrast, the evidence of orbital mechanics has been presented with at least a minimal amount of supporting argumentation. I have not ignored the posts you and John have made regarding this evidence, nor have I ignored the other evidences mentioned. I recognized that the other evidences would be addressed through a discussion of orbital mechanics, and therefore, I have set them aside until such a time as they can be so addressed along supporting argumentation.
With this explanation, I would like to continue our discussion on orbital mechanics. Could you please provide an explanation for the elliptical orbits of the planets?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Percy, posted 12-04-2002 7:02 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Percy, posted 12-08-2002 8:21 PM w_fortenberry has not replied
 Message 123 by Coragyps, posted 01-05-2003 4:44 PM w_fortenberry has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22605
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 119 of 163 (25981)
12-08-2002 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by w_fortenberry
12-08-2002 3:50 PM


The evidence you are referring to is found in posts 58 and 81 and was presented by Karl and Coragyps respectively. In niether post did I find supporting arguments for that evidence.
This evidence is common knowledge. Galileo has been touring Jupiter and the Jovian moons for the past six years. The Mariner spacecraft went to Mars. Pioneer 10 was the first spacecraft to leave the solar system. Magellan went to Venus. The exploits of all these and many other spacecraft are reported regularly on all the major news outlets. You deny knowing anything about all this? I don't know what game your playing, but I'm not playing it.
How about addressing my question. Did you not go to school? Did you not study the solar system at least a couple times? Did they not talk about orbits, spacecraft and star parallax?
Why is it always the Creationists with the weird positions. How come no evolutionist ever comes in here saying, "I have never heard of this Christ of whom you speak."
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by w_fortenberry, posted 12-08-2002 3:50 PM w_fortenberry has not replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3899 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 120 of 163 (28270)
01-01-2003 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by joetate18please
12-07-2002 7:03 PM


The orbits the planets occupy is governed by the natural laws discovered by Kepler and others. Through use of these laws we routinely send spacecraft throughout the solar system.
I'm not sure what it is about the planetary orbits that is so amazing. They (except Pluto) have roughly circular orbits but are actually elliptical. This could be because smaller bodies that crossed orbits of other bodies collided until the planets had orbits that were nearly circular. Also gravitational reasonance between planets would likely tend to smoothe out the orbits (elliptical orbits that pull in closer to other planets and then pull away flex the crust, heating it and tightening the orbit). Finally any planet that was too eccentric could have been ejected from the Solar System after a close encounter with a larger planet.
That may explain the orbit of the eight inner planets but it still leaves us with eccentric Pluto (nobody knows why its orbit is so elliptical). It also leaves us with a few families of asteroids that cross the orbits of Earth and some other inner planets and essentially every comet in the Solar System (too shortlived to be smoothed).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by joetate18please, posted 12-07-2002 7:03 PM joetate18please has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by w_fortenberry, posted 01-05-2003 3:58 PM gene90 has not replied

  
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