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Author Topic:   Homo floresiensis
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 126 of 213 (197082)
04-05-2005 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by crashfrog
04-05-2005 5:38 PM


in terms of body size, and development 10 and 11 year olds are able to be self sufficient (although "adult" thinking is not fully developed until 21 or so), but the brain size we are dealing with is somewhere between the rugrat and these "Lord of the Flies" abilities.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 133 of 213 (209118)
05-17-2005 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Darwin's Terrier
05-17-2005 8:23 AM


Re: H floresiensis fossils irreparably damaged
thanks DT, that is disturbing if true.
welcome back.

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 Message 132 by Darwin's Terrier, posted 05-17-2005 8:23 AM Darwin's Terrier has replied

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 136 of 213 (209462)
05-18-2005 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Andya Primanda
05-18-2005 9:39 AM


Re: H floresiensis fossils irreparably damaged
unfortunately that does not resolve the issue of the fossils being damaged. Jacob will be blamed for sequestering them away from other scientists availability to study, cast, cat-scan, etc.
does this mean that all that's of value now are the models that have been made? or can they be reconstructed at all?

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 138 of 213 (209787)
05-19-2005 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Darwin's Terrier
05-19-2005 8:39 AM


Re: H floresiensis fossils irreparably damaged
that's kind of what I figured, that plus there are some {before} pictures to guide the process. still a sad day.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 140 of 213 (246021)
09-23-2005 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Dr Jack
09-23-2005 9:42 AM


Re: What's the latest?
I was just going to add that one.
Need more samples.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 146 of 213 (250138)
10-08-2005 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Carson O'Genic
10-06-2005 12:55 PM


Digital H. floriensis skull
I was just reading the Oct issue of Discover and it had this tid-bit:
Discover Financial Services
Now paleoanthropologists can put a hominid skull in a computed-tomography, or CT, scanner and create a virtual skull that they can split apart any way they want. If they remove that digital skull altogether, they leave behind the outlines of a virtual brain. In 2005 a virtual brain of the one known skull of Homo floresiensis”the three-foot-tall hominid discovered on the Indonesian island of Flores”provided evidence in the ongoing debate about whether the creature represents a separate species or was a human pygmy with a birth defect. The size and shape of the virtual brain lends credence to the separate species theory. Moreover, the brain was not just a simpler version of a human brain. Some regions were smaller than ours, but others were unusually large for such a small hominid, hinting that Homo floresiensis might have been capable of abstract thought and could make complicated plans.
I would think that they would think ... differently.
The areas that are larger than normal would not be consistent with the diseased H. erectus\sapiens hypothesis.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 153 of 213 (251011)
10-11-2005 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Dr Jack
10-11-2005 9:29 AM


Re: More finds
of nine more individuals,
I read the article as they have found a total of nine, adding some new found parts to LB1.
bbc writes:
Now, the same team tells Nature journal it has skeletal remains from at least nine of the "Hobbit-like" individuals.
Thanks
This species issue can only be firmly resolved by finding more fossils, I'm afraid.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 155 of 213 (251198)
10-12-2005 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Nuggin
10-12-2005 4:00 AM


Re: More finds
time
and a few more fossils
will tell

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 156 of 213 (251201)
10-12-2005 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by PaulK
10-11-2005 1:04 PM


Double Rooted Teeth
The jaw should help if it has (or doesn't have) the double-rooted teeth.
FROM: The Loom Blog about life etc (click)
The key conclusion of the paper is that these fossils look a lot like the original Hobbit bones reported last year. The new jaw, for example, has the same peculiar roots on its teeth as the old one, and both also lack a chin. If the original Hobbit was just a pathological human, the authors argue, then all of these new individuals would have to be pathological too. And the fact that these fossils span 80,000 years makes it even harder to hold the pathology argument.
That may be from a blog, but the link is from Scientific American which gave it one of their Science & Technology Web Awards 2005
Both are good reads.
Enjoy.
{changed subtitle}
This message has been edited by RAZD, 10*12*2005 03:51 PM

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 158 of 213 (251936)
10-15-2005 9:08 AM


Nature Article Links
Here is a Nature Editor's Summary of articles
Nature - Not Found
The discovery of a small-bodied hominin from the late Pleistocene of Flores, Indonesia, caused a great deal of interest. Its classification as a new species was controversial, but now there is more evidence for the endemic human species, Homo floresiensis. The remains excavated at Liang Bua on Flores include another tiny adult mandible, 15,000 years old, and the right arm bones of the original find, known as LB1. The new findings confirm the presence of a long-term dwarfed population from before 74,000 to 12,000 years ago and argue against the idea that LB1 was an individual with a growth disorder. There is also evidence for the use of fire, and butchery of the mammoth-like Stegodon.
Sign in required to access the articles:
More evidence for hobbit unearthed as diggers are refused access to cave
More evidence for hobbit unearthed as diggers are refused access to cave | Nature
Palaeoanthropology: Further fossil finds from Flores
Further fossil finds from Flores | Nature
Further evidence for small-bodied hominins from the Late Pleistocene of Flores, Indonesia
Further evidence for small-bodied hominins from the Late Pleistocene of Flores, Indonesia | Nature
("1st paragraph" is same as above)
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 160 of 213 (252477)
10-17-2005 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Carson O'Genic
10-17-2005 3:58 PM


Re: Nature Article Links
I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until I know more. He could have been researching the inside shape in a more traditional manner. We do not know what documentation he made.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 167 of 213 (313624)
05-19-2006 7:06 PM


New Controversy ...
But no new evidence ...
PM - Hobbit controversy flares again
The scientific controversy over the fossils of so-called Hobbits, found on an Indonesian island and unveiled to the world last year, has flared up again.
When scientists announced they'd found a previously unknown species of human on the island of Flores, many regarded it as one of the most significant fossil finds in centuries.
The skeleton of a three-foot high creature, which apparently lived at the same time as Homo sapiens, was also a startling piece of evolutionary science.
But now a US scientist is questioning the existence of the Hobbit, and an Australian archaeologist who made the discovery is not happy.
---
But Professor Morwood is confident the truth about the Hobbit people will be unearthed.
MIKE MORWOOD: There's a long history in this discipline of being incredibly conservative, of people with vested interests trying to defend them, even against the overwhelming body of evidence, and in the case of Homo floresiensis, similar hominids will be found on many islands in South-East Asia and maybe other parts of the world.
Anyone who thinks scientist put up a united front based on some secret conspiracy should read reports like this. Conservative and defending old theories, concepts, etc. yes, but not a conspiracy.
Enjoy.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 169 of 213 (313985)
05-20-2006 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by scoff
05-20-2006 6:16 PM


Re: New Controversy ...
hey scoff, welcome to this board. CNN one getting a little dry at the wateringhole eh?
Thanks, I'll read the articles.

Join the effort to unravel {AIDSHIV} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 171 of 213 (314001)
05-20-2006 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by scoff
05-20-2006 8:34 PM


Re: New Controversy ...
saw it. just depressing.
Stick around there are some really good discussions here (and mostly non-political ...)

Join the effort to unravel {AIDSHIV} with Team EvC! (click)

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 182 of 213 (342159)
08-21-2006 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by kuresu
08-21-2006 7:27 PM


Haven't other hobbits been found on the island?
The original report said:
The skull and bones of one adult female, and fragments from up to six other specimens, were found in the Liang Bua limestone caves on Flores Island, which lies at the eastern tip of Java.
So you could have a dwarf species with one specimen with micrencephaly and get the same results ....
A major problem is that there appears to have been some tampering with the original fossils before any proper casts were made, so the original information may have been lost (the information is upthread).
A second problem is that this find has not (yet) been replicated.
Personally I doubt the "micrencephaly theory" but I'll wait for more information.
Thanks

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
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