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Author Topic:   Ten-sai, Evidence, Law, & Science.
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6589 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 16 of 50 (24915)
11-29-2002 7:33 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Ten-sai
11-29-2002 5:52 AM


T-
I know, we could use the scientific rules of evolutionary evidence!
Care to define this gem?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Ten-sai, posted 11-29-2002 5:52 AM Ten-sai has not replied

Ten-sai
Guest


Message 17 of 50 (24916)
11-29-2002 7:36 AM


M-
I see you have a sense of humor too!
Peace,
Ten-sai

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Admin, posted 12-02-2002 10:38 AM You replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 18 of 50 (24921)
11-29-2002 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Ten-sai
11-28-2002 8:49 PM


Ten-sai,
quote:
When I was a wee ole chap in law school learning about the logic of evidence, I studied the Model Rules, applicable both everywhere and nowhere...
The Model Rules of what, exactly? There are model rules for lots of things.
You claimed to have rules of evidence, now its model rules? Please cite where the model rules state they have a universal application of what evidence is. Are you trying to obfuscate?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Ten-sai, posted 11-28-2002 8:49 PM Ten-sai has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by mark24, posted 12-01-2002 8:36 AM mark24 has not replied
 Message 20 by joz, posted 12-01-2002 1:50 PM mark24 has replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 19 of 50 (25125)
12-01-2002 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by mark24
11-29-2002 8:47 AM


Well?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by mark24, posted 11-29-2002 8:47 AM mark24 has not replied

joz
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 50 (25145)
12-01-2002 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by mark24
11-29-2002 8:47 AM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
Ten-sai,
....Are you trying to obfuscate?

No m8 hes just talking out of his arse....
(Oh and TS I am not a lawyer, I have never wanted to be a lawyer, if I did want to I would go to law school and become one however I don`t)...
(Oh and "it still moves" - Gallileo)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by mark24, posted 11-29-2002 8:47 AM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by mark24, posted 12-01-2002 8:13 PM joz has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 21 of 50 (25175)
12-01-2002 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by joz
12-01-2002 1:50 PM


Joz,
quote:
No m8 hes just talking out of his arse....
We both know it.... BTW Spurs lost....
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by joz, posted 12-01-2002 1:50 PM joz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-02-2002 5:29 AM mark24 has replied

Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 50 (25217)
12-02-2002 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by mark24
12-01-2002 8:13 PM


quote:
Originally posted by mark24:
Joz,
quote:
No m8 hes just talking out of his arse....
We both know it.... BTW Spurs lost....
Mark

No they didn't. 1-1 v Birmingham.
PE
------------------
It's good to have an open mind, but not so open that your brains
fall out. - Bertrand Russell

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by mark24, posted 12-01-2002 8:13 PM mark24 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by mark24, posted 12-02-2002 8:16 AM Primordial Egg has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 23 of 50 (25231)
12-02-2002 8:16 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Primordial Egg
12-02-2002 5:29 AM


[QUOTE] No they didn't. 1-1 v Birmingham.
PE
[/B][/QUOTE]
PE,
Never trust a Leeds fan for reliable, up to date information, would seem to be the lesson to be learned......
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-02-2002 5:29 AM Primordial Egg has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 24 of 50 (25249)
12-02-2002 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Ten-sai
11-29-2002 7:36 AM


Hi Ten-sai, welcome aboard! Hope you're enjoying life here at EvC Forum.
Activity level is high for the number of moderators we have, and it sometimes takes us a while to catch up with events. We try to enforce the Forum Guidelines, and there's a rule 3 regarding treating your fellow EvC Forum members with respect and remaining dispassionate in discussion. Naturally we want to encourage a fun and spirited interplay, but we also want to stay focused on the issues, something that becomes difficult when the debate becomes personalized. I'm sure you understand.
Glad you've joined our happy crew!
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator
[This message has been edited by Admin, 12-02-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Ten-sai, posted 11-29-2002 7:36 AM Ten-sai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Ten-sai, posted 12-02-2002 4:54 PM Admin has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 25 of 50 (25261)
12-02-2002 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Ten-sai
11-28-2002 8:49 PM


Ten-sai,
http://EvC Forum: Ten-sai, Evidence, Law, & Science. -->EvC Forum: Ten-sai, Evidence, Law, & Science.
Thanks,
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Ten-sai, posted 11-28-2002 8:49 PM Ten-sai has not replied

Ten-sai
Guest


Message 26 of 50 (25292)
12-02-2002 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Admin
12-02-2002 10:38 AM


Hi Admin,
Glad those are just mere "guidelines" and not actual "rules" members must contract into as a condition precendent to joining. Although I understand your frustration with being unable to control people, you must likewise understand that's the tradeoff when you allow anonymous internet surfers to publish anything-they-want on "your"(really?) website without consideration. Because I wouldn't exactly call an anonymous email account and a fictitious name a valid conduit of consideration.
(Now I guess Mark wants to argue with me about the meaning of a "contract" because, like EVIDENCE, "contract" is a legal term and Mark seems to like to talk about them legal words??? )
Otherwise, you wouldn't have any current members! But there's always censorship, thread closings, and bans to deal with those whose styles you don't like.
So, Admin, I stand by what I said. Please give me an example of what you feel I posted was inappropriate (the only one I can think of is where I asked Shrafinator if she was a feminazi, and she in turn asked me if I was a "woman-hater", criminally insane, and in a mental hospital - talk about "if the shoe fits"!! ). Love to hear your reasons as well while you juxtapose my alleged infraction(s) against your beloved guidelines! Seriously though, this is no joke; I would love for us both to publicly look at the NUMEROUS violations of your beloved guidelines, of course by myself as well as the countless others!
Therefore, there is only one solution: BAN US ALL!!!!
Peace,
Ten-sai
PS. But thanks for the tip. My question for you: are there any creationist Admins here? You know, the ones that believe God created life and everything around us? 'Cause mesmells a bias . . .
PSS. Mark, you are right. A lawyer doesn't know anything about EVIDENCE. So please advise. I am waiting anxiously for your future counsel on what YOU think evidence is, although, I have to say, this will be the first time I've heard anybody assert evidence is a subjective thing. Are you now saying science is subjective or are you saying that science doesn't work with evidence??? Hoo-boy!! What a tangled web we weave . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Admin, posted 12-02-2002 10:38 AM Admin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by mark24, posted 12-02-2002 5:00 PM You replied
 Message 29 by Admin, posted 12-02-2002 6:47 PM You have not replied
 Message 30 by Admin, posted 12-02-2002 7:26 PM You have not replied
 Message 32 by Admin, posted 12-03-2002 6:49 PM You have not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5308 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 27 of 50 (25293)
12-02-2002 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Ten-sai
12-02-2002 4:54 PM


Ten-sai,
quote:
PSS. Mark, you are right. A lawyer doesn't know anything about EVIDENCE. So please advise. I am waiting anxiously for your future counsel on what YOU think evidence is, although, I have to say, this will be the first time I've heard anybody assert evidence is a subjective thing. Are you now saying science is subjective or are you saying that science doesn't work with evidence??? Hoo-boy!! What a tangled web we weave . . .
Post 18 please.
I have already answered your question regarding what evidence is, & have been waiting for some time for a response, see post one. Your turn. What is evidence?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
[This message has been edited by mark24, 12-02-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Ten-sai, posted 12-02-2002 4:54 PM Ten-sai has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Ten-sai, posted 12-02-2002 6:39 PM mark24 has not replied

Ten-sai
Guest


Message 28 of 50 (25306)
12-02-2002 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by mark24
12-02-2002 5:00 PM


Hi Mark,
I'm afraid you most certainly DID NOT answer my question about what evidence is...
You said:
Would this definition be getting close? ...
I must ask:
Was that a question or a statement? You don't sound too sure of yourself. Besides, quoting another source makes you no less ignorant of the topic. Was hoping for your words...
Mark:
The definition of evidence are the rules themselves which memorialize the concept
Me:
Which rules? Oh yeah, you said the "Federal Rules", but then contradict(legal term: IMPEACHED) yourself in a most excellent word economy by stating the "Federal Rules" don't apply to science (I think you quoted the Rules' logically impotent housekeeping provision on PAGE ONE)?????????? Therefore, we never actually get an answer from you about what you or any other evolutionist (if you speak for them) truely believe evidence is...
Let's recap:
In this last post of yours, you stated you've already published what you believe evidence is...
Upon review of the record, it was established you quoted another's definition of evidence as "evidence are the rules themselves that memorialize the concept", citing Federal Rules.
However, you believe, although never having actually read, the Federal Rules don't apply to evidence in science (not true though, remember Forensic Evidence?) based on reading a page one housekeeping provision.
????????????????????
So, try again. Tell us (really this time!!) what evidence is and, remember, I admit that lawyers don't know ANYTHING about EVIDENCE. And since you've yet to tell us what evidence is (except that you quoted anothere source and erroneously believe the Federal Rules or presumably any other codified Rules of Evidence are irrelevant to science), I, as well as other lawyers, am axiously awaiting your response.
Your answer will clear up the mystery as to why stupid lawyers like Phillip E. Johnson and myself don't buy your "evolution has lots of evidence" B-U-N-K argument.
Until next time,
Peace,
Ten-sai
P.S. Hint: Evolution is a conclusion and a patently erroneous one . . . Try (once you embrace the concept) looking at the evidence first before you reach a conclusion. Back to the drawing board I guess: What is evidence?
[This message has been edited by Ten-sai, 12-02-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by mark24, posted 12-02-2002 5:00 PM mark24 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by mark24, posted 12-02-2002 7:46 PM You have not replied
 Message 33 by mark24, posted 12-04-2002 10:08 AM You have not replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 29 of 50 (25307)
12-02-2002 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Ten-sai
12-02-2002 4:54 PM


Hi Ten-sai!
Please accept a 24-hour suspension of posting privileges.
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Ten-sai, posted 12-02-2002 4:54 PM Ten-sai has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13084
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 30 of 50 (25311)
12-02-2002 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Ten-sai
12-02-2002 4:54 PM


ten-sai writes:
Although I understand your frustration with being unable to control people, you must likewise understand that's the tradeoff when you allow anonymous internet surfers to publish anything-they-want on "your"(really?) website without consideration.
It's not really "my" website. I only pay the bills and write the code. EvC Forum is run for all site members on both sides of the Creation/Evolution issue. Any view is permitted, the only requirement is to follow the guidelines.
PS. But thanks for the tip. My question for you: are there any creationist Admins here? You know, the ones that believe God created life and everything around us? 'Cause mesmells a bias . . .
One thing on my long list of things to do is to add a list of the admins in a few visible places. There are currently three admins: 2 evolutionist and 1 Creationist, and I'm currently looking for another Creationist admin to balance things out:
[b]Admin ID[b]Member ID[b]POV
AdminPercipientEvolutionist
Adminnemooseus   minnemooseus   Evolutionist
AdminaquilityTranquility Base   Creationist
The last person to receive a suspension of posting privileges here was nos482, an evolutionist.
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator
[This message has been edited by Admin, 12-02-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Ten-sai, posted 12-02-2002 4:54 PM Ten-sai has not replied

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