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Author Topic:   Mt. Ararat Anomaly
Yaro
Member (Idle past 6495 days)
Posts: 1797
Joined: 07-12-2003


Message 76 of 97 (227812)
07-30-2005 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by roxrkool
07-29-2005 3:45 PM


Re: Anybodies Ark.
You know, I never thought of this!
If noah was adrift in a world wide sea for 1 whole year, how did he know tha mt. he landed on was Ararat?
Not only that, but if the mountains weren't even there before the flood, how the heck did he recognize the mountain as Ararat?

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 77 of 97 (228028)
07-31-2005 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by Yaro
07-30-2005 1:37 PM


ararat
If noah was adrift in a world wide sea for 1 whole year, how did he know tha mt. he landed on was Ararat?
Not only that, but if the mountains weren't even there before the flood, how the heck did he recognize the mountain as Ararat?
not that i'm defending this stuff, but. the bible was written AFTER any supposed events. not by the people involved, if they even existed. the mountains need not be there before, or be known to noah at all. things in genesis are consistently given anachronistic names, contemporary to the authors. the tradition is "noah landed on those mountains over there, which are called ararat."
oh, and notice the grammar, btw.
quote:
Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
noah crackpots never seem to catch this bit. ararat is not the name of a mountain.
quote:
Jer 51:27 Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her, call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz; appoint a captain against her; cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillers.
ararat is a COUNTRY. the ark came to rest on that country's mountain RANGE.
the fact there is a modern mountaint (singular) named ararat is probably a fluke, or at best comes from the same word.

אָרַח

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 80 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 09-14-2005 6:40 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
cheddar
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 97 (228269)
07-31-2005 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by arachnophilia
07-31-2005 1:34 AM


Re: ararat
True. The plural is raaaaather important there.
The bigger question to my mind had always been, if they landed on the top of the Mt Ararat that is currently near the Iranian border in Eastern Turkey...how the hell did they get down? It's one of the most difficult mountains in the world in terms of it's inhospitability to people on it...it's covered in broken lava rock and a good deal of it is inaccessible to climbers.
The thing that annoys me the most about reading around the various distortions that the creationists are bandying about, is that they're taking perfectly marvellous and creative tales handed down through generations as great stories to tell children (there are so many global flood theories with exactly similar details that predate Christian writings)...and ruined them by pretending they're fact.
Sort of like pretending Star Wars really did happen, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Perhaps that's where the animals were hibernating.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 79 of 97 (228274)
07-31-2005 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by cheddar
07-31-2005 11:19 PM


Re: ararat
Sort of like pretending Star Wars really did happen, a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.
we call those people "nerds."

אָרַח

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 80 of 97 (243460)
09-14-2005 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by arachnophilia
07-31-2005 1:34 AM


Re: ararat
ararat is a COUNTRY. the ark came to rest on that country's mountain RANGE.
Theist scholars, or the brightest of the lot, have identified "Ararat" as a misnomer. In Hebrew, "ararat" simply means "highest mountain". The Ark came to rest on Mt.Everest.
Herepton

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 97 (243464)
09-14-2005 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Cold Foreign Object
09-14-2005 6:40 PM


Re: ararat
Hello, Herepton.
That's not what Strong's claims:
Ararat = "the curse reversed: precipitation of curse"

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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 97 (243475)
09-14-2005 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Cold Foreign Object
09-14-2005 6:40 PM


Re: ararat
Support needed.
Theist scholars ...
Which Theist Scholars?
or the brightest of the lot,
You know you're gonna have trouble supporting that one so why not just leave it out?
... have identified "Ararat" as a misnomer.
Okay, references, please.
In Hebrew, "ararat" simply means "highest mountain". The Ark came to rest on Mt.Everest.
You need to provide LOTS of support for that assertion.

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 83 of 97 (243480)
09-14-2005 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Chiroptera
09-14-2005 6:44 PM


Re: ararat
Ararat = "the curse reversed: precipitation of curse"
James Strong made his contribution to Biblical scholarship in the 19th century.
While his source is popular, it is for beginners.
Strong's is in error.
Modern theist scholars have correctly interpreted the word in question to mean "highest mountain."
The Ark was never found on Mt. Ararat, except Ron Wyatt devotees won't let it go. This falsifies the rendering which looks for the Ark on Mt. Ararat. The Strong rendering is weird and almost unintelligible.
Its too late to look on Mt. Everest, as many mountain climbing expeditions have traversed the peak and never a report has surfaced suggesting the Ark was seen.
Herepton

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Replies to this message:
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 84 of 97 (243514)
09-14-2005 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Cold Foreign Object
09-14-2005 7:17 PM


Re: ararat
Thanks, Herepton.
Yeah, I'm aware of the weaknesses of Strong. I'm curious, though, who and when did they figure that ararat means "highest mountain", and what led them to that conclusion?

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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3047 days)
Posts: 3417
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 85 of 97 (243524)
09-14-2005 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Chiroptera
09-14-2005 8:33 PM


Re: ararat
Yeah, I'm aware of the weaknesses of Strong. I'm curious, though, who and when did they figure that ararat means "highest mountain", and what led them to that conclusion?
First off the rendering makes sense.
Next, I am racking my brain to remember the theist scholar who made the correction. He is a big name....Ph.D. and all. When I remember I will let you know.
Herepton

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 86 of 97 (243645)
09-15-2005 1:20 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Cold Foreign Object
09-14-2005 6:40 PM


hebrew class is about to pay off
Theist scholars, or the brightest of the lot, have identified "Ararat" as a misnomer. In Hebrew, "ararat" simply means "highest mountain".
proof?
oh, btw, i doubt that ararat bears any connection to the hebrew word for mountain -- it doesn't have the right consonants. the word for mountain is as in "har megiddo" for armageddon. it does get rendered as ar- something in english, but ararat is spelled in hebrew. it starts with an alef, not a heh.
for it to mean "mount something" in hebrew it's have to be , but if i wanted to say highest mountain, i'd write
see the difference?
the text clearly says also "the mountains of ararat." saying mount agains would be redundant. look: . now, you might be able to argue that maybe if it REALLY said mountains plural, it'd say "harIM ararat" instead of "hari ararat." and you might have a case. but ararat is still clearly not the mountain itself, but the country that contains it.
this is further proven by this verse, which you overlooked:
quote:
Jer 51:27 Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her, call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz; appoint a captain against her; cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillers
ararat is a kingdom. not a mountain.
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 09-15-2005 01:22 AM

אָרַח

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 87 of 97 (243646)
09-15-2005 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Cold Foreign Object
09-14-2005 7:17 PM


Re: ararat
James Strong made his contribution to Biblical scholarship in the 19th century.
While his source is popular, it is for beginners.
Strong's is in error.
the rule is to never, ever trust strongs to tell you what a proper noun means. strong's is not a bible dictionary, and should not be used as one. it likes to have things that are obviously biased and sometimes downright silly as best guesses for what proper nouns "were." instead, concentrate on what things means.
strong's is a CONCORDANCE, which means it's a listing of where words occur in the bible in their root words. you can often use CONTEXT to figure out the definition.
and the context of the other usage of "ararat" tells me it's a kingdom, not a mountain. i don't really need to hear what dr. strong or rather one or his later contributers THOUGHT it means.

אָרַח

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Gary
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 97 (243905)
09-15-2005 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Cold Foreign Object
09-14-2005 7:17 PM


Re: ararat
Ah, but Everest is not the peak farthest from the Earth's core! Chimborazo in Ecuador has that honor, though it isn't even the tallest mountain in the Andes. Also, if you measure Mauna Kea in Hawaii from its base, it comes out to be taller than Mt. Everest as well, at over 9 km tall. Obviously Noah landed in Hawaii.

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tsig
Member (Idle past 2908 days)
Posts: 738
From: USA
Joined: 04-09-2004


Message 89 of 97 (243936)
09-15-2005 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by arachnophilia
09-15-2005 1:20 AM


In spades
You not only hit the nail on the head you countersink it and add putty.
They got all the animal off the mountain by taking the ark apart and building rafts to float them down so there's no Ark to be found.
It says so right here in my special interpetation of the universal word of god.

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 90 of 97 (243981)
09-15-2005 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by tsig
09-15-2005 8:21 PM


Re: In spades
you not only hit the nail on the head you countersink it and add putty.
thank you.
i'm working on figuring out why it says הרי אררט instead of הר באררט which is how i would say "a mountain in (the country of) ararat." or ההרים באררט which is how i'd say "the mountains in (the country of) ararat."
learning grammar is so slow going...
apparently when you want to say the "mountain range of (country)" you says ______ הרי although i'm not sure why that is.
for instance, 2 sam 1:21: הָרֵי בַגִּלְבֹּעַ "mountains of gilboa" or 2 chron 21:11 בְּהָרֵי יְהוּדָה "in the mountains of judah"
additionally, amlodhi made an old post to the effect of:
quote:
— (al harai Ararat) = "upon the mountains of Ararat"
(harai) is in the plural construct form = "mountains of . . ."
If a single mountain were meant, the singular construct would be used. Which, in this case, is identical with the singular absolute, i.e. simply "har".
Thus, the verse says that the ark came to rest upon the mountains of Ararat, indicating a region rather than a particular mountain.
Amlodhi
This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 09-15-2005 11:16 PM

אָרַח

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