To clarify...I am not debating that parables can't teach good lessons...only the assertion that the whole OT is just a parable!!
But that's not what you're saying. You're claiming that stories without factual basis have no authority to be useful in teaching. You're claiming that if Jesus never existed, and was simply a fairy tale, that "do unto others" would somehow lose its meaning.
And it's not true. Even if He never existed, His message rings of truth.
But again, I ask the question - what is your defintion of good and where do you get it from??? Do you even know? Or is morality just a feeling for you?
If you were born to a cannibalistic tribe from the recent past where betrayal was the ultimate good, would you go along with that or would you say 'I disagree'? The fact is, that what it takes to be liked by others is not universal in all cultures...are you going to go with the culture every time, or are you going to stand on your principles?
My definition of good is "that which helps others and reduces suffering." Or something approaching that. I get it from a sense of empathy with my fellow man, and understanding that at the core we are all the same, and deserve the same basic rights. The message of Jesus coincides with that belief, and so I maintain my faith in Him because He tells me to live my life the way I would want to, anyway.
And I never claimed that such morality and empathy are universal. Certainly other cultures have different beliefs. A tribe of cannibals likely does not see human beings outside of the tribe as similar to themselves, or deserving of the same rights. It's an education issue.
The point is that even people who do not believe that the Bible is literally true, people like myself, jar, and a good many atheists and people of other faiths, are
decent people, and would wholeheartedly agree that "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is an excellent basis for a good and healthy society. The fact that it comes from the Bible is irrelevant - even if it's all myth and allegory, it
still rings true to those who understand that all people are fundamentally the same and deserve the same rights.
Re. empathy...are you saying that you have to condone someone's actions before you can empathise with them? Jesus didn't teach that...re. treating people badly because of their sin...Christians are supposed to believe that we are sinners saved by grace, so empathy should be present, obviously they're not reading their Bibles very closely!...just another cultural norm which should be changed, without making the wrong, right.
Where did you get
that idea? No, you don't have to condone other people's actions! I don't condone murder, or killing kittens, or theft, or a whole host of other actions that cause suffering! But I can still empathize and try to
help them. Even the Bible tells us to visit people in prisons. No one is so far gone down that path that they cannot change themselves and become decent people. They are worthy of help, though we certainly don't condone their actions.
Re. authority, I did not mean just any old authority and certainly not a dictator lol. Hitler was involved in the occult, certainly not a Christian, he used any argument he could find to get people to carry out his plans. Of course, there were German Christians who knew he was manipulating people and tried to stop him, unsuccessfully alas, paying with their lives in the process.
Read some more history. Specifically, try and stomach a little of Mein Kampf. Hitler poured out his black soul in that book, and his motivations and reasons for the Holocaust. Hell, people should have seen it coming after that book. He clearly uses Christian rhetoric and a belief that God was on his side to justify the murder of millions. The idea that Hitler was not a Christian is blattantly false - he just wasn't a very
good Christian. He believed in Jesus as his saviour, and he believed int he Biblical God. He just twisted the Bible to match his anti-Semitism, like all religious bigots. Including the gay-bashers.
You know what guys...I'm wondering if we are off topic for this thread? What do you think?
Perhaps you are right. We certainly aren't talking about the different versions of the Bible any more. Perhaps a new topic to continue this discussion?
Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
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