There is no such thing as The Bible

If there were no God and evolution were true, no, the message wouldn't be the same, survival of the fittest and all that, remember?? That's how many capitalists run their businesses, including folks like Conrad Black apparently from what I've read. You didn't know that?

You are wandering far afield. If there were no GOD would the message "Love others as you love yourself" still have the same significance?If not, explain.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

If I had an atheistic belief system, where would such an idea come from? Plenty of folks in the past have not accepted that teaching, ranging from cannibalistic tribes in New Guinea to the philosopher Nietzche, either thru ignorance or rejection. Why would it be inevitable to believe that, irregardless of what my thoughts were on God?

That has nothing to do with the question. Let me try yet again.If everything in the Bible were nothing more than tales told around a campfire, would "Love others as you love yourself" hold any less significance?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Why can't you come to the conclusion that you should treat others as you wish to be treated without being told to do so by a diety?The idea does not hinge on some magical principle. It's simply a system by which people in a society can strive to better themselves and their society.

All I can say is, be thankful you live in a country with Christian roots. Not all countries or religions have that idea as a basic assumption. My point is, not all people have come to that conclusion. What I think is beside the point. You are assuming that 'bettering oneself' is a universal value. Look at the people living on the streets in India, people believe they are the way they are because of 'karma', they are born in a caste and that's where they stay for life. I wish your idea were a universal principle shared by all countries, peoples and religions...but it's not. All dependant on one's worldview (or if you are agnostic, which values you want to steal from other religions and make your own).

Less significance? It would just be one of many competing societal values outside of a coherent worldview. Your answer: yes.

How would "Love others as you love yourself" have less significance. That has nothing to do with worldview or competeing values.How hard can it be to understand something this simple.It's one saying. Now if the Bible is but myth and Jesus only a fairytale, how does the saying have any less meaning.It is one of many competeing social values outside a coherent worldview today.You need to do better. So far you've explained nothing.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I really wish I knew what you were getting at but I really don't. If Jesus is a fairytale, then the whole thing is a fraud, why would I believe anything that 'Jesus' said??? I can find statements in Harry Potter I agree with but am I going to build a religion around it? I don't think so!!

What makes you think that the people living in the streets in America are any better off? As for a caste system, how many people born into a trailer park ever escape that life?

Just because the person which says something isn't a real person doesn't make what they said any less profound.Yoda said, "Do or do not, there is no try."That has meaning, even though Yoda was a puppet.Even if Jesus is not a factual person, what he said can still have meaning.

I haven't mentioned a religion. I don't care if it's a fraud or not. I don't even care if anyone knows the origin of the saying or not.The question is "Is the saying love your neighbor as yourself" a valid saying?Not is is valid because of authority. Not is it valid because of religion.Is it a vaild statement?If it was in Harry Potter would it be a vaild statement, one of worth?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Jar, your problem is that you are arguing from a fundamentally moral view. As we have seen in other threads many Christians - particularly fundamentalists - don't really believe in morality, or understand how it is possible for anyone to be truly moral.They really can't understand what you are talking about.
<This message has been edited by PaulK, 09-13-2005 02:48 AM

A valid saying??? Without authority, how can a saying be 'validated'?? How can one be sure? It might be a nice thing to believe, but without a coherent worldview, it would be an arbitrary belief, would it not?

A saying can be validated if it has some demonstrable worth. Let's look at the one in question. What does that mean?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion