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Author Topic:   Atheism isn't a belief?
PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 322 of 329 (238641)
08-30-2005 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by LauraG
08-30-2005 3:37 PM


Re: I think it's both
...but ALL gods have been defined by man. Any god is an argument from ignorance.
They certainly have but not all gods have been defined as all-powerful and all-knowing etc. plenty (like the norse gods) have been fallable.
The problem you run into when you argue that a god would be free of natural limitations is that there would be no consistency in the realm of the natural.
I prefer to assume that there are no natural limitations on god or man. If I assume that there are then I go into the investigation of the universe(s) with preconcieved notions of limits and that is not conducive to unbiased research.
You're free to imagine anything or draw up any conjecture. You run into problems when you have to prove what you imagine to be true, specially if you concede this interdimensional guy in a lab coat can manipulate stuff in contravention of the natural every now and then.
Except that I don't contend that the guy in the lab coat can manipulte stuff in contravention of the natural. I contend that if he exists then he does everything entirely within the natural.
You're just taking god and putting him in a lab coat a couple of dimensions away.
Yup.
...and maybe one day we'll figure out how Santa Claus delivers all those presents in one night and shake hands with him too.
Now that would be cool. I wonder how he travels so far in 24 hours?
Sure, if you work from science and then speculate, not the other way around.
And what other way is there? If you want to make advances you can't go in believing that it is impossible to do so. You have to challenge what is "known" and push back the boundaries by finding new ways to do things. Leading scientists do this all the time. I am sure Jules Verne had a damn good idea that we would reach the moon one day even though his contemporaries thought him nothing but a dreamer.
What will you take as evidence? When will you consider something to have been proven to be impossible?
To my knowledge there is no way to prove something is impossible unless that something is logically self defeating.
I see no more evidence for the non-existence of God than I do for the existence of God so while I am almost certain that the "natural" can explain everything, I am not willing to assert that there is no god. Doing so would be an act of faith (in his non-existence) and I don't do faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by LauraG, posted 08-30-2005 3:37 PM LauraG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by LauraG, posted 08-30-2005 4:37 PM PurpleYouko has replied

PurpleYouko
Member
Posts: 714
From: Columbia Missouri
Joined: 11-11-2004


Message 324 of 329 (238644)
08-30-2005 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by LauraG
08-30-2005 4:37 PM


Re: I think it's both
So all supernatural beings but the one that fits your definition have been disproved. Is it your definition that makes your supernatural being so special?
Hmmm? Haven't I just said that there aren't any supernatural beings because the whole concept of supernatural is meaningless? And what exactly do you mean by MY supernatural being. I claim no being whatsoever.
No natural limitations on man. I think that can be discounted without much effort. Limits are not preconcieved notions. If they were, you could will yourself to fly.
Only if you knew how to. I could will myself to speak Japanese but it would actually take many years before I could do it. If ever (I am crap at languages)
...so what would the manipulations be? Wouldn't this make your guy in the lab coat superfluous?
Course it would. That is rather the whole point here. He is just one of a whole race of highly advanced scientists. Just the way that we might one day be.
...and what do you achieve in renaming him?
I didn't name him or rename him. I just gave you an example of something that we (at our present level of technology) could not distinguish from a God, yet which would fit wholly into the "Natural".
You can't challenge the unknown with the supernatural. None of Verne's writings assumed anything outside the realm of the natural, thus making them possible. He worked from science and speculated. The opposite isn't science-fiction. It's just fiction.
Read my lips. "I do not believe in the supernatural". To me everything is natural. I have stated this before and I will do so again as many times as it takes.
...and a god isn't?
Define God and I'll let you know.
So your answer is you won't take anything as evidence. ... and we're back on topic with the whole "faith that god doesn't exist" line.
So show me your evidence then. You can't provide it any more than Iano could provide any that God does exist. It simply isn't available

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by LauraG, posted 08-30-2005 4:37 PM LauraG has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by LauraG, posted 08-30-2005 5:22 PM PurpleYouko has not replied

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