War in Iraq, is there a point?

Ya sure. Earlier we came up with a figure of about 20,000 actuall fighting forces. While the number may seem small, it is deceptive two ways:1) 20,000 fighters can do alot of dammage in a guerilla war. And the number does not indicate the support network of these insurgents. The info I posted cited much popular support for many of the groups involved.Think about it like gang warfare. There may be only a small group of gang members who participate in violent action. Yet they have a large network of supporters etc.2) The insurgency has been growing steadely. The 20,000 fighters is up from 5000 fighters just 2 years ago.This insurgency, coupled with widespred opposition to american occupateion (the polls I cited spoke of over 50% of the populace) spells only disaster to me.My question is, even if we get a constitution ratified and pull out tomorow, what's to guarrantee that Iraq will be a stable country? I guess, what's to prevent the cat leaving and the mice playing

Here's a serious question - how do we a)stop the insurgents entering the country and b) combat those incountry?My contacts (British service(wo)men in Iraq) tell me that people are entering the country at a steady rate and we don't seem to be making any headway at all.

Well, until they start amassing this vast army, I think we should concern ourselves with reality and stop invading countries on false intelligence. Those billion and a half men are going to need a fleet of ships, a great air force, a whole bunch of cruse missiles and the like in order to reach the Florida coast. At the moment they got nothing but home made bombs.

That's a nonsense statement and one you need to retract.You do realize that Noriega became a drug lord with the help of the US?What were the Altruistic Motives for the conquest of Florida?Where were the Altruistic Motives in the case Cherokee Nation vs State of Georgia?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Boy, you are so wrong about the character of Americans. We are unique among the world's populations. What other nation on Earth says to its government, "Here take my tax dollars, raise a military to defend our freedom & while you're at it, defend democracy across the globe & we'll foot the bill for that, too. Whenever there's a natural disaster, send assistance immediately, even if the nation in need is our sworn enemy. Do not ever invade another land for the purpose of taking it over to steal its resources. Do so only to rescue its people or protect & restore it to its rightful citizenry."HOw many aggressors have we repelled over the decades, then given the nations back to their people? What other nation on Earth does that? We have paid the bill for it all, too. You're dead wrong about who we are as a nation. You need to go back to school & study.

Rubbish, rubbish & more rubbish. Peddle this baloney to someone else. I'm not buying & I'm not retracting one word.

My Govt. is not my country. Maybe I don't feel that our way of life is under any significant threat from Iraq. I may be wrong. I feel that there is still a looming terror threat eminating from many other countries other than Iraq.If I feel this is the case, it is my DEUTY and my right to voice my opinion. My country NEEDS me, you, everyone, to do that when necissary. I'm not complaining or critisising, I am being honest. The ENEMY has a lot more to worry about. My rights are inalienable. I can exercise them whenever I see fit. Say Dubya started a war with Canada and started putting people in concentration camps over here. And his justification for the war is that: "Canadians are too polite". Would you keep quiet about your opposition? No. We must behave as americans do and exercise/enjoy our liberties. To show the world that we are truely free, as we can freely question everything, even ourselves. The enemy is currently in the middle of a desert, they don't have the time to log into the EVC. Well, I know you feel this way, but think about it critically. Yes they are actually, that's why they go and die for those rights. Well, do you have proof? I do it precisely because I care. If I lose my rights, have they not died in vein? I do. I don't support my govt.

Sorry but that's not how it works here. We try to deal with reality, not fanciful imagination.I asked you two specific questions. Do you have an answer for either?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

By combating insurgents, I presume you mean on a strategic level. The 1 line answer is that you have to give the insurgents that they can get their views across better through the political process.First, let's take a look at what the insurgency is.You have an insurgency with no vision, no base, limited popular support, fighting an elected government and committed Iraqis to the democratic process, and you have Iraqi security forces that are fighting and dying for their country every day.Next, what is thier current effectiveness? How do you defeat it? You have to get past that tipping point on several issues: economic, political, military, before the insurgency will start losing recruits. The leaders will be as die hard as ever, but without recruits and the Iraqi Government hunting them down, they will lose their abilities to execute missions.BordersBig issue here, as it is in the United States. No easy answers. The first part is setting up and training the Iraqi Army and National Guard to be able to be the military muscle that the political arm can flex. It takes time to build these units. By that, I mean you can throw people together and teach them to fight, but Commisioned Officers and Non-Commissioned Officers can only be grown through time as the leadership potential of individuals emerge. That potential then has to be nurtured and educated to make effective tactical decisions.In short, the borders are going to be a problem.

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We are unique among the world's populations.

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Even the claims of uniqueness aren't particularly unique, I'm afraid.-

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What other nation on Earth says to its government....

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Everyone says that.-

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HOw many aggressors have we repelled over the decades, then given the nations back to their people?

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Actually, during the expansion west, the United States was the aggressor. And we never gave it back to the Native Americans, either.-

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You need to go back to school & study.

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Actually, this all a matter of basic history that I did learn in school. I'm surprised that you seem unfamiliar with it. Were you homeschooled?

And if they get nuclear or biological weapons, do you think they would hesitate to blow up Tampa if they go the chance?

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Slight correction. They do have reservations and can pass their own laws.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*

TalPlease understand that those of us who oppose the current policies of the Administration are not saying we should not oppose terrorism. What we are saying is that the method being used is not effective and in fact is increasing the risk of terrorist attacks. That is a very great concern. The issue for many of us is based around that.What is the best method for preventing non-Nation States from getting the means of destruction currently availabe only to Nation States?Frankly, a nuclear weapon is not the biggest threat. If the terrorists were as smart as they seem to be, they would realize that far more damage could be done to the US with conventional methods and very small budgets than with a classic nuclear device.But we need to realize that we do have limited resources. The question is how to best use those resources to get the greatest benefit.No one is saying that terrorism should not be opposed. The debate is, or should be, on how to best use our limited resources.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Hi Tal.I would be more impressed if the reservations weren't such tiny portions of North America, usually located on lands considered economically marginal, and weren't managed by the US government "on behalf" of the natives.It reminds me more of South Africa bantustans (only without even the pretense of independence) than an actual returning of territory wrongfully taken.

Chiro...didn't say I agreed with it, just pointing out that they do have their own land.

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Tired of the opposite sex? Want to turn your favorite football player into a raging homsexual? Then purchase your Gay-Gene Cattle Prod! One Zap from the GGCP will turn the Gay Gene off or on at your whim. So if you want your wife to get some hot girl on girl action, the Gay-Gene Cattle Prod is for you! *not intended for use on children*