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Author Topic:   Is there any indication of increased intellegence over time within the Human species?
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 26 of 99 (234423)
08-18-2005 9:34 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by JavaMan
08-12-2005 7:28 PM


Re: Distinguishing between intelligence and knowledge: bad idea?
quote:
Surely whether a term or concept has explanatory or predictive power depends on what level you're working at. At the level of brain chemistry, clearly the term 'intelligence' has no explanatory or predictive power, but at the level of behaviour it certainly has.
Are you so sure or are you just "aping" the literature? I know for myself that in 1979 I CLEARLY had the thought that kinase phosphorlation was associated with MY OWN memory retention. In high school I took on an independent study in chemsitry where I speculated into that THOUGHT a way that the brain might resonate with gravity waves by wiggling protein side chains in membrane ion channels. After I got to Cornell I could not discount the possiblity that gravity via dissipatives might not contain enough force accumulatable not by morphic resonance of Sheldrake but via unknown truth of quantum gravity to, in today's lingo, enable "distributive" knowledge no matter what diffusive peptides might change electrically at synapses and in ontogeny. Since Georgi Gladyshev began corresponding to me via EVC this thinking can be demonstrably shown to be naive but still with another level IN BETWEEN atom and macromolecule that Dr. Gladyshev in truth contributes to France's Lehn etc (who only lectured at Cornell in 1988)I can in NO WAY say that there is no explanatory power at the level of brain chemistry given all that I know. Yes there is a leap from the negative distortions of phenotypes to the positive indicator often called "intelligence".
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-18-2005 09:35 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by JavaMan, posted 08-12-2005 7:28 PM JavaMan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by JavaMan, posted 08-18-2005 11:33 AM Brad McFall has replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 33 of 99 (234581)
08-18-2005 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by JavaMan
08-18-2005 11:33 AM


Re: Distinguishing between intelligence and knowledge: bad idea?
It has been this unique thought process in mind that has gotten both my insights into science and the trouble I have had with people. OK the secret is now out.
It was from this thinking that I was able to winnow out a lot of biologically claimed statements that could not "match" any brain I had thought.
It is not a secret to my brother as he even wrote a science fiction book about this idea, I talked over with him on a daily basis in our teens, of distributive brain power calling on the FBI and national security issues to harness the fictional gravity wave solition travelling around in our brains.
I was lucky enough to have Dr. Gladyshev in Moscow bring this notion back to reality by work that went on at Yale rather than Cornell. My hat is off to him. It still might be possible to cobble up a specific causal structure that Ben is after ecologically and shows how behavior itself can change the chemistry, in the same external or exogenous sense, as frequently as I have given it thought but that indeed would not be knowledge and only a mere power that I posses. Instead it seems my network connection was severed and I had to post from a different IP.
Who knows maybe Jar was correct and big brother is googling thi.ss.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by JavaMan, posted 08-18-2005 11:33 AM JavaMan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by JavaMan, posted 08-19-2005 8:27 AM Brad McFall has replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 36 of 99 (234784)
08-19-2005 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by JavaMan
08-19-2005 8:27 AM


Re: Distinguishing between intelligence and knowledge: bad idea?
You know, I can not remember the title. He wrote it while he was completing a PhD in Physics while studying the magnetic field at the University of Texas in Austin. He never published it. It was quite long however. This was back in the late 80s and early 90s and at that time I was still thinking in older "themes", consequently I was also still somewhat married to these resonant ideas and was taken aback by Greg's thought that the soliton could be extracted from space and time. If it exists it just was space/time of Einstein and no national security issues could ever arise from its non-science fiction status. Now, that you mention it, I guess I will ask him for a copy. He probably has it backed up somewhere if he has lost his hard copies.
As to how phenomeonlogical thermodynamics and Figenbaum's (kinematic) interest in Goethe's SUBJECTIVE theory of light are concerned.... well that will take me forever even given Newtonian physics.
Yes, indeed when I first ran across an older version of Georgi's work at Mann Library of Cornell I had given it no more thought than the many different attempts to speak greatly in biology relative to standards but even within that cognition I was struck by the attempt to single out a level of hierarchy between the molecule and macromolecule determinately. This notion of supramolecularity had never been taught in Chemistry Class by Nobel Laurets and I had already found that "density" was not suffient to explain diversity. (The biologists were all on about "density-dependent" populations etc). This notion however was not original with Dr. Gladyshev.
What was impressive from the biological standpoint was that it "seemed" to deal with thermodynamics in ways that were defintely correct when compared to how it was handled in evolutionary theory prior. This of course did not mean as you thought that we need necessarily import Russian water all of a sudden (I dont know if there are any patents in the US or on your side of this water even today). So when I first correspnded with Dr.Gladyshev I had started to say that I would need to understand statistical mechanics BEFORE I could really get into what he was doing EVEN THOUGH I HAD READ FROM HIM IN PRINT THAT THIS WAS NOT NECESSARY. He wrote back EXACTLY what he had already written. That might not be a sign for you that the person corresponded with knows what they are talking about but when it comes from me I always have changed my thought before I write back so I knew it was correct. Suffice it to say that by reading Schrodinger on statistical physics and some early textbooks on the subject I DO understand that the differential equation set up IS different. I had never found a need before to use this much math in biology because the best applied mathematicians were stuck on a particular model or some issue relative to density dependence ONLY. I need to write a lot of physics now.
I am 40 and it took me this long to master biology. I hope it doesnt take that long with physics and math needed to continue.
Now, it may be that this will change some of physics. I would be too exicted about that possiblity but I can sense that. That is probably something you do not. I dont know.
As to biology (and the hyberbolic reference to "behavior" inter thread alia) it has enabled me to think through the history of the discovery of the genetic code in NEW ways. I am now able to think about how male garter snakes might be able to have adpated macrothermodynamics to "fake" a female lipid stucture. I can concieve of dynamic relations between glycogen decomposition biochemistry and Gladyshev's law, and I have a 'new' idea that recombination (as a genetic concept) and chaismata formation are seperable in such a way that one can dispense with Weismann sholarship when discussing if an adpative oversight occurred OR what the significance of non-adaptive traits are.
These are all ongoing "threads of thought" and by pursuing all of them I doubt the design of them could ever be elimiated as Ruse reports that certain evos and philosophers of science would like to see scientific creationism disposed to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by JavaMan, posted 08-19-2005 8:27 AM JavaMan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by JavaMan, posted 08-20-2005 3:23 AM Brad McFall has replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 38 of 99 (235016)
08-20-2005 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by JavaMan
08-20-2005 3:23 AM


Re: Distinguishing between intelligence and knowledge: bad idea?
references
recent presentationI dont have pdfs just now so I didnt read it. I have read other things by Lehn.
quote:
A possible entry into the field was to try to affect the processes which allow ion transport and gradients to be established. I related this to the then very recent observations that natural antibiotics were able to make membranes permeable to cations. It thus appeared possible to devise chemical substances that would display similar properties. The search for such compounds led to the design of cation cryptates, on which work was started in October 1967. This area of research expanded rapidly, taking up eventually the major part of my group and developing into what I later on termed "supramolecular chemistry".
@Management trainee till Nobelstiftelsen - NobelPrize.org
The field has indeed expanded and there are indeed whole books on the subject.
This annotated article might assist in delimiting what counts as supramolecular and what does not.
Supramolecular Chemistry and Nanotechnology
It seems that it has been the analogy to information technology that has pushed this thinking in chemistry on. Of course different philosophical views on chemistry might result in different evaluations being made as to if this is anything but typed hype. I dont think it is. There should be some better connections being made to simple acid-base differences and the molecular theory of the chemical bond but chemistry is alos not my field. It will be helpful to biologists struggling with the meaning of geneic selectionism however.
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-20-2005 03:32 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by JavaMan, posted 08-20-2005 3:23 AM JavaMan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by JavaMan, posted 08-20-2005 4:33 PM Brad McFall has not replied

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5063 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 39 of 99 (235017)
08-20-2005 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by JavaMan
08-20-2005 3:23 AM


Re: Distinguishing between intelligence and knowledge: bad idea?
sorry double post
This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 08-20-2005 03:31 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by JavaMan, posted 08-20-2005 3:23 AM JavaMan has not replied

  
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