Focus on the Family Will Keep your Kid from Being Gay

Fun with Dobson's advice:Cheers and Jeers: WednesdayThe relevant stuff is at the beginning...

Oh, and thanks for the link (to keep this on topic).

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Uh... I'll reply to this directly, but you let me know if I should return to not replying directly. Yes, your own child, and for instructional purposes.If he had suggested doing this for lots of other children, or showing them how really huge it can get when you stroke it, or telling the kid to bend over so you can show them how painful gay sex can be by shoving it in, then you might have a point.That children can see a penis and learn something about life is not irrational nor necessarily a sexual advance. I said I didn't even want to get into the pedophilia issue. You may or may not have a very good reason to feel child sex is morally "bad", and I might even be able to agree, though it is not based on "harm" (unless you want to go to the pertinent threads and present evidence), and it is not objectively "bad" (go to pertinent thread or start a new one).This is only about plain nudism, which you did a slippery slope from, to attack a person who holds that gay sex results in a slippery slope which (including a few moral items) makes it bad. Homophobia is also in our culture, especially against the legitimization of homosexual relationships and conduct through marriage. So which is it; am I supposed to be fighting cultural movements based on factually inaccurate beliefs especially if they result in intolerance, or am I supposed to accept whatever the culture believes?Maybe this gives you insight into why I appeared. I really didn't care what you felt about Dobson, until I saw statements (twice) which inaccurately and hypocritically supported another equally ignorant and bigoted position. Yes you have a right to feel things are creepy. I didn't say you couldn't. You can be as much a prude as you want. I will correct factually inaccuracies though, and fight for my own right not to have my community portrayed negatively.And this is where the tables turn. Look at what you just asked that of me. Well Dobson finds gays creepy as do many Americans. Are you telling him he doesn't have the right to find certain things creepy? Or that he cannot offer opinions on how these creepy things can be alleviated?Its called being inconsistent and hypocritical. That is where I draw a line. That's funny because I'll bet you use, or accept arguments from people, that gay marriages work in other countries or that gay sex doesn't ruin other cultures, to argue against bigots like Dobson who fight gays and gay marriage. No need to tell me, just think about that for a minute.How are my experiences relevant? There are nudists in the US. It is obviously a minority movement but it is there, just like gays. They even recently got a nude beach going in LA. I am arguing from seeing Europe's longrunning almost nonissue with nudism and nude imagery, that the US will not fall nor all children risk molestation, by accepting nudism and nude imagery. Thus arguments which suggest the slippery slope of nude=sex=bad (or molestation) are wrong and should be identified as such.This message has been edited by holmes, 08-18-2005 11:49 AM

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holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

Had to think what the congratulations was about...was the link really that good???Ah, the whole Ph.D. thing. I/m still working on some revisions. You can tell I'm making progress because I'm in the "waste time online" phase.

It doesn't say he is a radical. It says he is a radical cleric, which implies he is no different from radical muslim clerics which we kill, deport, and jail on a regular basis.I'm simply pointing out the adjective as BS.

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"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill

Is he?He preaches intolerance.In any guise religious fundamentalism is ultimately just different sides of the same coin isnt it? I think islamic, christian, jewish or any religious fundamentalism is bad.Dobson is quite radical when held up to most people. I am not sure how many of the insurgents in Iraq are radical muslim clerics. Evidently you have insight to this that I do not. Yes there are a number of radical muslims involved, but to make a statement that they are all clerics seems ludicrous. Also, can you provide some data on the # of radical muslim clerics we have jailed and deported. I am not saying we havent but your statement implies that it happens all the time. I disagree.

The description is NOT BS, Tal. He is a radical cleric. He spouts anti-homosexual hate-speach.We "deport and kill" radical muslim clerics who foment and perpetrate acts of terrorism. Not because they are radical clerics with hateful ideas, but becuase they commit crimes.Dobson is indeed a radical cleric - he just hasn't crossed the line into murder or inciting people to murder. If he does, he'll be charged just like any others.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

When he starts bombing innocent people, I'll call him radical.Until then, he has free speach, just like everyone else. You aren't sure? Then do some research. Muqtada al-Sadr - Wikipedia

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"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill

No, hate speach would be, "Let's kill homosexuals."Homosexuality is morally wrong. That isn't hate speach. That's called an opinion. Yep, and when Dobsin starts fomenting and perpertrating crimes, I'll be the first to say he's radical.

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"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill

I don't think Sadr can be classified at this time as an insurgent. He is working somewhat without the iraqi gov't. He had led insurgents in the past.Ok even if I give you this. THATS ONE.Now if you had said radical clerics that incited insurgents, I could possibly agree.

Back in my days of denial, I dated many girls. All of them were very man-like. One of them was so convincing that when I first met her I thought she was a guy (she was also very flat if you know what I mean).I am neither very masculine nor very feminine. I am just average, although I do tend to lean toward my masculine side more. I hang out with people that go to beer drinking parties. I date guys that are just average like me. I never hold hands. I never display public affections (not even when I was dating girls). When I walk down the street or in the mall with my b/f, you'd think that we were just a couple of friends. People didn't even know that my g/f were my g/f. I wear things like bd pants to shorts to jeans to those 2.99 shirts they sell in walmart.However, within the gay community that I am in I'd have to say that over half of the people I know are somewhere between very feminine and just plain fruity. They can't say a paragraph without making a compliment on how nice my shoes are. They can't walk down a block without holding hands or kissing their loved ones. They can't just wake up in the morning and not spend 30-45 minutes in the bathroom getting ready (I spend about 5-10, if that). They must almost always wear the most fruity clothes imaginable. In other words, they are the complete opposite of what I am. They hate watching sports. They don't drink beer.Now, imagine everything in between.Like atheletes, doctors, dogs, cats, chinchillas, ants, Italians, Germans, Jews, christians, etc. there are different "types" of homosexuals. The only difference is while the rest try to score with every member of the opposite sex they could get their hands on, we try to score with every member of the same sex we could get to. However, the difference is like one group worshipping Christ while the other still waiting for their savior. Oh wait, because of that little difference you persecuted them for centuries. Never mind (being sarcastic).But seriously, of course there are different "types" of gays. What, you thought we were all the obvious types before? I'll give you a hint, most people have trouble believing I was gay and a heterophobe... and a girlphobe.

The only way defeat an insurgency is to give show the insurgents that they have a better opportunity through the political system than by insurgency.But I'm sure you knew that.Radical Clerics are not confined to Iraq. The US, Britain, and other countries have deported or jailed these people for their REAL hate speach such as, "Kill all non-believers whever you find them..."Allow me a question. What makes Dobsin a radical? What is his view on homosexuality? What is his solution to the percieved problem of homosexuality?This message has been edited by Tal, 08-18-2005 01:24 PM

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"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill

Ah, like Fred Phelps. You know, he and Dobson don't sound all that different to me. Well, I would disagree, both about the morality of homosexuality and the definition of hate speach. When you tell homosexuals that they are evil and are going to Hell for having a sexual lifestyle you don't like, that sounds like hate speach to me.Honestly, Dobson isn't all that different from Phelps. "Being gay is evil" isn't all that different from "kill gays."For example:

quote:

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From: Rod Swift
Subject: Focus on the Hate....
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 11:57:03 +0800 (GMT+0800)

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FEEDBACK From: PietrzykM@aol.com

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As many of you know, James Dobson of Focus on the Family has been complaining lately of the unfairness of linking the religious right's recent "ex-gay" ad campaign to the death of Matthew Shepard, arguing that the religious right has only love and compassion for the homosexual.

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Today in the mail I received my copy of the October 1998 issue of Focus on the Family's magazine Citizen. In the issue is an article ("The Living Proof," pp. 18-21) about the latest Exodus ex-gay conference in Seattle. The article profiles Exodus member Tim Hysom and his father Glen Hysom. Six years ago Glen Hysom's wife revealed to Glen that son Tim had sent a letter to them while he (Tim) was away on missionary work, telling them he was gay. In the letter, Tim complained he didn't want to be gay and blamed his father's absence during his childhood for his subsequent sexual orientation.

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The father, Glen Hysom, describes his reaction to the letter before an audience at the Exodus conference [here's a direct quote]:

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"It was like a bomb went off right in my lap. One of my kids could not be homosexual. This is an impossibility. They weren't raised that way."

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"My next reaction was that I'd just go blow my brains out. But I knew that there would be people hurt. So then I thought, Well I'll just go blow his brains out, so he doesn't have to be homosexual.' But I knew that would hurt all of us, too. So, I'll just go blow that guy's brain out that got [Tim] into the homosexual lifestyle. That'd solve it all.' Well, then I'd go to prison. So I couldn't do any of those things. That's when I decided that since I was part of the problem, I had to be part of the repair." (p. 19)

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Let's take a look at Phelp's ideas:

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Fags have a 3 point agenda: 1) decriminalize sodomy, 2) add fags to the protected classes as victims like blacks, and 3) criminalize Gospel preaching against fags. Sweden's doom is now irreversible!

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With the arrest of Ake Green, Swedes have allowed the filthy sodomite agenda to be completely fulfilled. See our monument to Pastor Green here. Just because Green's conviction has been overturned, don't think that makes things right! The fact that the vast majority of the Swedish population either sat by silently while this rape of justice took place, or actually applauded it, solidifies the idea that Sweden is a land of the damned.

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Just because Green preaches the doctrine of devils that "God loves everyone" doesn't make it right for Sweden to arrest him for also preaching that fags are an abomination (Lev. 18:22).

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With this act, as well as the vitriolic response given to this preaching, Sweden has drawn to it the wrath and mocking of God!

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THANK GOD FOR ALL DEAD SWEDES!!!

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Unconfirmed numbers of Swedes are dead as a result of the tsunamis which ravaged Thailand and the other lush resorts of that region, and thousands more are unaccounted for, either still rotting in the tropical conditions or buried, as they deserve, as asses in mass graves (see Jeremiah 22:19). Scarcely a family in Sweden has been untouched by the devastation. Bible preachers say, THANK GOD for it all!

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It's not that far of a jump. Like I said - Dobson hasn't quite crossed the like like Phelps has - but their ideals are the same. His ideals are what makes him a radical cleric, Tal. Committing crimes based on those ideals would make him a criminal.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

See, you aren't listening. We tell EVERYONE that they are evil and are going to Hell because they are born into sin. Homosexuality is simply another sin. Then we say that Christ died to cover ALL of our sins. Everyone can be forgiven. That is the message. Mr Hysom is an idiot. Where has Mr. Dobson ever said, anywhere, to kill homosexuals for any reason? You know what, forget it. I'll start a thread on this subject.

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"War is an ugly thing but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feelings which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." John Stuart Mill

He can't even be identified as a cleric. From Tal's source.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion