|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 6472 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Does Islam need a Reformation? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6472 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
I believe there is little comment for two reasons:
1) Most EvC posters tend towards the leftist notion that all cultures and faiths are equal. In a sense, then, jesus, moses and mohammed are interchangebale, along with Bhudda and Hindu Gods in a broader sense. Thus, the reflexive response of many posters to the suggestion that Islam might need or consider a reformation was antagonistic. That is, their equivalence vantage point meant that one could only suggest Islam might have reason to consider a reformation out of some kind of prejudice, maybe racism, and certainly superiority. However, a few posters and myself were able to present many very creditable sources, including islamic scholars and thinkers, to validate the discussion, some agreeing a reformation is needed, others not - while not disputing that there is much for muslims to give hard thought to with respect to the practise of the faith, at least. The foregoing largely nullified the initial assumption that prejudice and racism motivated the topic and thus any further interest in posting. I suppose a discussion of equivalence could have ensued, but that was not the real topic at hand. 2) Because the issue for most was whether the topic was creditable, and not the substance of the topic, once the former was established there was no further interest. I'd imagine, though, as at most forums, there are many who never post but who find the material interesting. so i continue to post relevant and interesting material I come across. Yes, I know at least one or two will be now be tempted to post that, in fact, the disinterest has nothing to do with my points or others, but, instead, is a consequence of nothing pertinent being said deserving of comment. Whatever.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6472 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
Faith adn thinking are hardly incompatible. In fact, much of the most brilliant thinking ever done has been with respect to religion.
as had been pointed out earlier on this thread, there is simply nothing in Christianity that would justify imperialism, terrorism, killing unbelievers and the like. Islam is different. It is a faith at war with itself. It has a spiritual, peaceful side, and a side that is a call to endless war against all non muslims until they are conquered, subjugated and, ultimately converted. It also calls for the world to be ruled under an islamic caliphate, according to islamic (Sharia) law. this conception of islam marks islamism. And the islamists are a huge, worldwide movement. They rule states (Iran, Sudan, ande formerly Afghanistan), they are powerful 5th columns waiting in the wings of power in others, and they even have strong influence in western islamic societies. There is no equivalent in Christianity - although i surely do not deny the brutality and barbarism of the christian world before democracy (democracy having led to the faith being interpreted much more truly). Thus, the assumption of equivalence does not stand any real test of reason. That is, one faith is strictly peaceful, the other is both peaceful and warlike.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Most EvC posters tend towards the leftist notion that all cultures and faiths are equal. I'm sorry? To which posters were you referring? I highly doubt this is the case.
Thus, the reflexive response of many posters to the suggestion that Islam might need or consider a reformation was antagonistic. I'm sorry? Who was antagonistic to this idea? You're quite confused, CS. No one was antagonistic to the idea that there's a sort of schism in Islam that needs to be addressed. What we were antagonistic to was your repeated superiority complex concerning Christianity, and your repeated assertions that radical militant Islam is best supported by the Koran. To the extent that you are no longer advancing that point, you're no longer advancing a contentious argument. Thus, you're not getting a lot of participation because you're no longer saying things we disagree with.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Jazzns Member (Idle past 3911 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Crash, CS is just using this thread as his blog to repost frontpagemag articles due to some incessant need to rant about Islam. He cannot make his own blog because no one else would read it except for people who enjoy trash like frontpagemag. I am content to let him just keep posting his garbage until a moderator sees fit to close this piece of shit thread due to atrophy.
This message has been edited by Jazzns, 08-16-2005 08:11 AM Organizations worth supporting: Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world (Protect Privacy and Security) Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights) AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6472 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
Almost all those article were originally published somewhere other than at Front Page, like the Washington Times and NY Post. It it their reprint of the articles that I link because they are more easily accessed there, and the links don't expire, unlike those at the original sources.
Apparently you have not noted that i have referenced articles written by respected Muslim writers and scholars. Are they guilty of an "obsesseion need to rant about Islam?" Are their articles and opinions "trash", "garbage" and pieces of "shit"? Frankly, you need to figure out why this subject - one of raging debate in the islamic world - threatens you as it does, to the point where you refer to the work of writers like Manji, Phares, Rushdie, Taheri, Ijaz, Schwartz, et al, as "trash, garbage and shit."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Jazzns Member (Idle past 3911 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
As much as I hate posting into this thread to even give it the semblance of legitimacy, your particular response was absurd.
No where did I say that the opinions of those people were "trash, garbage, shit". Your implication therefore is indicative of your own bias and motive. I was calling this thread and frontpagemag "trash, garbage, shit" and the lack of enthusiasm of the rest of the forum for your "blog like" treatment of the thread over the past few weeks shows a relative agreement. So stop putting words into my mouth unless you care to further damage the reputation you have so eloquently built so far on EvC. If you have a problem with my rejection of your sickeningly conservative sources then that is fine but do not dare to define my position for me. Organizations worth supporting: Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world (Protect Privacy and Security) Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights) AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6472 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
All those writers have articles regularly published at front page magazine, and you referred, therefore, to them, and to this thread, which provides their articles, in those terms.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
well it seems that the foundations of islam were in a time when the religion's first followers had no political standing. a scorned people with a new and different religion is a sure bet for becoming a scornful people. it would seem that the revolutionary aspects would give rise to extremist sects, but then one could say the same of christianity... funny thing that. it's true as well.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Jazzns Member (Idle past 3911 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
You may want to read through the uselessness that is the rest of this thread before you pick up this torch.
Organizations worth supporting: Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world (Protect Privacy and Security) Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights) AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
of what torch are you speaking?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
CanadianSteve Member (Idle past 6472 days) Posts: 756 From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Joined: |
If you read the Koran's War verses, aka Sword Verses, and sharia law, you will see a major section of the faith which has no comparison in Christianity. If you read all the posts thus far, especially those pertaining to this topic, you will see what I believe to be strong evdience of this. You will also see that some prominent Muslim writers also recognize the problem posed by the War Verses. Not all believe a reformation is the answer, but, nonetheless, almost all believe something must be done.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Jazzns Member (Idle past 3911 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
Just wondering if you really wanted to get involved in the headache that was this thread. I am kind of on a campaign to let it die. The Admins I am sure can't be biased toward bigotry of opinion but I sure can.
Organizations worth supporting: Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world (Protect Privacy and Security) Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights) AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
all the threads on this board are headaches. especially ones that are 20 pages long. 2 cents. all it's worth.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
i said nothing to suggest that they are comparable religions. merely this, both are prone to sects known for birthing psychotics.
this is a generalized statement drawn from my own studies on islam both political and non. i've read Milestones (and thrown the ungodly crap across the room). i've also seen the terror that christians create everyday outside of abortion clinics (and had friends involved in such). it is not the religion that creates this, but people in circumstances and those who thirst for power. organized religion is a method for controlling people and how they think. the spanish inquisition was no more representative of the love and acceptance of which jesus spoke than this current quagmire is of the islam that my cousins follow.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
AdminJar Inactive Member |
Allah be praised. Closing this sucker down.
New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
Message 1 Thread Reopen Requests Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting |
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024