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Author
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Topic: Is there any indication of increased intellegence over time within the Human species?
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 1 of 99 (230169)
08-05-2005 12:32 PM
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There was another thread, Message 1 that started out on Bones of Contention but where the issue of intellegence came up. I believe that the question is interesting enough for it's own thread. First, I'm not sure there is a good definition of intellegence so as a working assumption I would describe intellegence as the capability to imagine a new way of performing a task. In this thread I'd like to ask several questions.
- is there some minimal brain size needed?
- are there certain brain areas needed?
- is there a method of measuring intellegence based simply on brain size?
- is there any evidence to show that intellegence has increased over time?
This message has been edited by jar, 08-05-2005 11:32 AM
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 2 of 99 (231206)
08-08-2005 11:07 PM
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bump
NT
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 7 of 99 (231592)
08-09-2005 6:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 5 by JavaMan
08-09-2005 2:31 PM
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well, using the definition I siggeszted (and defining intellegence was always one of the biggest issues) I'd split them into two groups (bacterium, mimosa, jellyfish' snail) and (mouse, dog, chimpanzee, human). The split would come on the issue of problem solving.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by JavaMan, posted 08-09-2005 2:31 PM | | JavaMan has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 9 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2005 9:13 PM | | jar has not replied | | | Message 11 by JavaMan, posted 08-11-2005 8:24 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 8 of 99 (231594)
08-09-2005 6:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 6 by Theus
08-09-2005 4:05 PM
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Re: Partially satisfying ancestors, best taken with a pinch of salt
In the end, remember that when we look at fossils, we see more into ourselves than we do in our ancestors. I think that's a very important point. Knowledge has increased, but was the first person to chip an edge on a rock less intellegent than say, an atomic scientist? Was human success due to some increase in intellegence (once some threshold is passed) or to an increase in knowledge?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 6 by Theus, posted 08-09-2005 4:05 PM | | Theus has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by Ben!, posted 08-12-2005 1:58 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 29 of 99 (234456)
08-18-2005 11:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 27 by Dr Jack
08-18-2005 9:49 AM
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Is that intellegence
or increased knowledge?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 27 by Dr Jack, posted 08-18-2005 9:49 AM | | Dr Jack has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 30 by Dr Jack, posted 08-18-2005 11:44 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 31 of 99 (234472)
08-18-2005 12:07 PM
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Reply to: Message 30 by Dr Jack
08-18-2005 11:44 AM
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Re: Is that intellegence
It takes intelligence to invent better tools. Or where do you think the tools come from? Absolutely. Intellegence is needed. But does it take more intellegence to create the first variation or the subsequent improvements?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 30 by Dr Jack, posted 08-18-2005 11:44 AM | | Dr Jack has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 32 by mick, posted 08-18-2005 3:03 PM | | jar has not replied | | | Message 34 by Dr Jack, posted 08-19-2005 4:44 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 55 of 99 (236469)
08-24-2005 2:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by Dr Jack
08-24-2005 11:22 AM
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Re: Is that intellegence
Or could it be that the tools used by each culture were better suited to the individual applications and lifestyle?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by Dr Jack, posted 08-24-2005 11:22 AM | | Dr Jack has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 57 by Dr Jack, posted 08-30-2005 4:18 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 58 of 99 (238565)
08-30-2005 10:49 AM
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Reply to: Message 57 by Dr Jack
08-30-2005 4:18 AM
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Re: Is that intellegence
But if the Neanderthal tools were easier for the Neanderthals to aquire and served the purpose needed, were more of a swiss army knife, meet general needs tool than the specialized tools of the Cro-Magnon, I could make an argument that they were superior. Being heavier might not be a disadvantage if the users were not traveling and might even be an advantage with a more sedentary people. In addition, even if the advantages you describe were fact, that does not show an increase in intellegence.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 57 by Dr Jack, posted 08-30-2005 4:18 AM | | Dr Jack has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 59 by Dr Jack, posted 08-30-2005 11:47 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 60 of 99 (238572)
08-30-2005 11:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 59 by Dr Jack
08-30-2005 11:47 AM
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Re: Is that intellegence
Was Einstein more intellegent than Newton?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by Dr Jack, posted 08-30-2005 11:47 AM | | Dr Jack has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 61 by Dr Jack, posted 08-30-2005 12:00 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 62 of 99 (238577)
08-30-2005 12:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 61 by Dr Jack
08-30-2005 12:00 PM
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Re: Is that intellegence
I still don't see that as indicating an increase in intellegence. It could equally be serendipity, based on innovation. The Cro-Magnon made an innovative discovery, and those discoveries spread quickly because the Cro-Magnon were more mobile.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by Dr Jack, posted 08-30-2005 12:00 PM | | Dr Jack has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 66 by Dr Jack, posted 08-31-2005 10:46 AM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 64 of 99 (238600)
08-30-2005 1:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by joshua221
08-30-2005 1:09 PM
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No new ideas have really been thought of since the Enlightenment, Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, spread of Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity, and the time of Jesus. The TOE, double-helix, theory of gravity, general relativity, psychology, antibiotics, rubic-cube.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by joshua221, posted 08-30-2005 1:09 PM | | joshua221 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 65 by joshua221, posted 08-30-2005 1:23 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 67 of 99 (239001)
08-31-2005 1:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Dr Jack
08-31-2005 10:46 AM
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Re: Is that intellegence
Not just umb luck, but need. If the Neanderthal tools met there needs there would be little incentive to change them. If, in addition, they were lower cost to produce, there would actually be a disincentive towards change.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Dr Jack, posted 08-31-2005 10:46 AM | | Dr Jack has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by Dr Jack, posted 09-01-2005 4:26 AM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 69 of 99 (241549)
09-08-2005 10:31 PM
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Looks like there may be evidence.
I ran across this article recently that may point to objective evidence. I'll see if I can find some direct references.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 71 of 99 (241600)
09-09-2005 12:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 70 by AdminNosy
09-09-2005 12:22 AM
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Re: Looks like there may be evidence.
I'd like to have more than just a news article. I'm trying to find the original. AbE: From the original article
For microcephalin, the new variant class emerged about 37,000 years ago and now shows up in about 70 percent of present-day humans. For ASPM, the new variant class arose about 5,800 years ago and now shows up in approximately 30 percent of today's humans. The wonderful thing to me is that we may be seeing a continuation. The fact that these changes appear to fairly recent implies that we are just at the beginning of the change. What might we see 10,000 years from now? This message has been edited by jar, 09-08-2005 11:46 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by AdminNosy, posted 09-09-2005 12:22 AM | | AdminNosy has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 72 by Ben!, posted 09-09-2005 2:30 AM | | jar has not replied |
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