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Author Topic:   So, Why do we all hang out at the EVC?
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 39 (227116)
07-28-2005 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Rahvin
07-28-2005 2:14 PM


quote:
...I like being forced to examine my own beliefs and motivations.
Interesting.
I came into the evolution/creationism debate thinking that it should be possible to make short work of the creationist arguments. Sure enough, the creationist arguments are usually disposed of in a few short posts. Yet, the creationists cannot be shaken of their beliefs, no matter what the facts are, or how logical the arguments against them are.
Then, I realized that they must be thinking the same thing about me. The epistemological questions this raises are obvious, and I am still trying to work out a reasonable solution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Rahvin, posted 07-28-2005 2:14 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Rahvin, posted 07-28-2005 2:59 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 17 of 39 (227132)
07-28-2005 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Chiroptera
07-28-2005 2:21 PM


Faith is a tough thing.
If a person trully believes that the Bible is true in all respects and that science, for all its evidence, is simply wrong, you will not be able to convince them.
Similarly, to a person who accepts observable evidence as superior to stories in the Bible, fairy tales about a big man in the sky with no evidence to back it are doomed to failure.
I believe in God, but accept what I see with my own eyes as true. I accept that science is able to construc the most likely scenario from the evidence we can observe. I find the evolution vs. creation debate interesting becuase it forces me to continuously look harder at why I still believe in God despite the lack of evidence, and it's one of the few places where scientits and fundamentalists will verbally duke it out and present their arguments while listening to the opposing view.
That, plus I just really like to argue, and everybody out here in the offline world close to me hates it when I bring up deep topics like this

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Chiroptera, posted 07-28-2005 2:21 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by robinrohan, posted 07-28-2005 3:41 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 39 (227146)
07-28-2005 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Rahvin
07-28-2005 2:59 PM


Having somebody to talk to about philosophical subjects is pleasant to me. I also like trying to write out my thoughts in a clear and concise fashion--very good for knowing if you really understand something.
Also, I've learned quite a bit of science here--for example, the proofs for TOE I think I can explain to others (I mean out in the real world) if they would but listen. Normally, they don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Rahvin, posted 07-28-2005 2:59 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 39 (227167)
07-28-2005 5:34 PM


one small voice
I guess I just wanted to show that there are a few Christian Evolutionists who don't believe the message of Christ was "hate everybody else in the world."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Jazzns, posted 07-28-2005 5:52 PM jar has not replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 20 of 39 (227168)
07-28-2005 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
07-28-2005 5:34 PM


Re: one small voice
Amen Jar!
I came here at first to see what people people were saying about the whole debate. It is here that I realize how REALLY empty YECism is. As hard as they press they just really never see how shallow both their faith and reasoning is. It hurts their character, their credibility, and most unfortunatly their religion.
Christians have a hard enough time just trying to share the love of Christ let alone convincing people of something to the equivalent that the world is flat. Then YECs just make themselves look totally evil by their political actions in trying to force their religion into schools. What a bitter picture some of my non-Christian friends must have of Christianity. I can only imagine that they picture a Kansas state school board member holding a Bible over their head, pissing on The Constitution while stacks of science textbooks are burning in the background.

Organizations worth supporting:
Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world (Protect Privacy and Security)
Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights)
AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 07-28-2005 5:34 PM jar has not replied

  
Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 39 (227235)
07-29-2005 1:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
07-27-2005 8:22 PM


I am here basically to learn, a long long time ago I used to post, but then I realized that I didn't have anywhere near enough knowledge to contribute much. So now I just lurk.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Yaro, posted 07-27-2005 8:22 PM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by GDR, posted 07-29-2005 1:40 AM Rand Al'Thor has not replied
 Message 24 by Omnivorous, posted 07-29-2005 10:05 PM Rand Al'Thor has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 22 of 39 (227238)
07-29-2005 1:40 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Rand Al'Thor
07-29-2005 1:13 AM


Rand Al'Thor writes:
I am here basically to learn, a long long time ago I used to post, but then I realized that I didn't have anywhere near enough knowledge to contribute much. So now I just lurk.
I've never let a lack of knowledge stop me from passing on words of wisdom.
I basically came here to try and expand my minimal knowledge of basic physics, although I seem to keep finding myself on threads involving religion.
My three main interests are the Christian religion, basic physics and politics. There aren't many places I can go to discuss these things without someone either being bored to distraction or getting so angry they froth at the mouth.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 07-29-2005 1:13 AM Rand Al'Thor has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by sidelined, posted 07-30-2005 12:56 PM GDR has replied

  
Aztraph
Member (Idle past 6198 days)
Posts: 53
From: Seymour, Indiana, United States
Joined: 07-25-2005


Message 23 of 39 (227387)
07-29-2005 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
07-27-2005 8:22 PM


Why are any of us here?
I am really new to this kind of exchange of ideas, but that is the reason I came here, to exchange them. Share my knowledge and (more importantly) point of view, and find more information that either goes along with my personal beliefs, or makes me examine them and rethink them. I guess i'm here for my own improvement and the improvement of others.
As far as which one is the one that happened, i personally don't know. To me there is enough information to go either way, what i do know is that it was no accident, we are (for better or for worse) here and we exhist (to ourselves if to no one else), but it was purposful and deliberate act (by whatever God you chose to believe in).
I know that sounds like a canned answer, but to have a specific hard core rule that includes everyone is imposible

That which does not kill us, makes us stranger.-T.G.
Aztraph

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Yaro, posted 07-27-2005 8:22 PM Yaro has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 24 of 39 (227629)
07-29-2005 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Rand Al'Thor
07-29-2005 1:13 AM


Rand Al'Thor writes:
quote:
I am here basically to learn, a long long time ago I used to post, but then I realized that I didn't have anywhere near enough knowledge to contribute much. So now I just lurk.
A wise old perfesser once told me that you have not internalized knowledge until you can apply it to new data and state your conclusions clearly, and that to do so requires practice.
Post, Rand Al'Thor, post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 07-29-2005 1:13 AM Rand Al'Thor has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 25 of 39 (227672)
07-30-2005 7:16 AM


Perhaps one of the reasons we hang out here is because we get to see little tidbits like this. This is from the letters section of the latest issue of New Scientist responding to an article about ID:
Admittedly the calculation was done on the back of a cigarette packet, but I have just proved that the chances of people stupid enough to believe ID occurring randomly are so infinitesimally small that they are impossible. Therefore, the only reasonable explanation for the existence of ID believers would be some intelligent...er...doh!
--Percy

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 26 of 39 (227794)
07-30-2005 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by GDR
07-29-2005 1:40 AM


GDR
There aren't many places I can go to discuss these things without someone either being bored to distraction or getting so angry they froth at the mouth.
I must say I can relate to this.If I start a discussion about such items with friends or family I quite often get hushed or ignored.It is not often in the course of a working day that I get to start a conversation along these lines.
Oddly,though,I often get a verbal joust going with the door-knocking preachers come to save me from satan Most of them are clueless sheep but rarely you will find a person who has thought deeply about the issues{someone like jar} enough to even have opinions conflicting with his religion and these people I will actually invite in for coffee.Neither expects to sway the other but we both enjoy the stimulus of debate.
At EVC forum,i think, the chance to get a sampling of people from around the planet seperate from the artificial boundaries of nationality shows me that we have much more in common that I once thought.
More than anything I have come to regard the majority of you as friends{I know,I know get a REAL LIFE eh?} and I find I can share many things with you that I cannot find time for otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by GDR, posted 07-29-2005 1:40 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by GDR, posted 07-30-2005 1:18 PM sidelined has not replied

  
bob_gray
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 243
From: Virginia
Joined: 05-03-2004


Message 27 of 39 (227801)
07-30-2005 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
07-27-2005 8:22 PM


I like the board software
Like everyone else, I like the quality of the average poster on this site. I think one of the best reasons to read here as opposed to elsewhere is
dBoard Version 1.0
Innovative software from PerSoft 2004
I like being able to jump into the middle of a conversation and immediately being able to trace it back to its roots. Also, the POTM threads are a great way to catch stuff you would probably otherwise miss.
All in all a very satisfying intellectual experience.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Yaro, posted 07-27-2005 8:22 PM Yaro has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Chiroptera, posted 07-30-2005 1:13 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 39 (227803)
07-30-2005 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by bob_gray
07-30-2005 1:11 PM


Re: I like the board software
I agree that the "reply to a specific thread" feature is a good one. It combines some of the benefits of both a threaded BB and a non-threaded one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by bob_gray, posted 07-30-2005 1:11 PM bob_gray has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 29 of 39 (227805)
07-30-2005 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by sidelined
07-30-2005 12:56 PM


sidelined writes:
Neither expects to sway the other but we both enjoy the stimulus of debate.
(Quote taken out of context )
Actually I have had my position changed on some things. There is a lot of knowledge to be gained from this forum. I also learn a lot just by being forced to think out and post my own thoughts.
I have just had a great lesson on space and time by cavediver. I'm in Canada and he's in the UK. Ain't the internet grand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by sidelined, posted 07-30-2005 12:56 PM sidelined has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by robinrohan, posted 07-30-2005 11:22 PM GDR has not replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 30 of 39 (228009)
07-30-2005 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by GDR
07-30-2005 1:18 PM


There is a lot of knowledge to be gained from this forum. I also learn a lot just by being forced to think out and post my own thoughts
Yes. the way you know if you understand something is to write it out in your own words. If you can't do that, then you don't understand it. I have irritated some people by paraphrasing what they said, but I did it in order to figure out if I understood what they said. I've stopped doing that lately though, because people don't like it.
I'm in Canada and he's in the UK.
Yes. I wish to be more cosmopolitan. Hard to do if one is a ditch-digger in Texas. But it is so pleasant to talk to people from around the world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by GDR, posted 07-30-2005 1:18 PM GDR has not replied

  
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