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Author Topic:   Evolution != Atheism (re: the Rejection of Theism in Evolution)
Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 166 of 178 (216667)
06-13-2005 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Chiroptera
06-13-2005 2:28 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
The list is heirarchical.

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Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 167 of 178 (216673)
06-13-2005 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 2:37 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
In Genesis 7:11 (all verse are from the NRSV):
In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
And Genesis 8:2:
...The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained....
Quite literally, the Bible speaks of the sky being a dome, with windows in the dome through which rain falls. This is quite explicit. But let us use the Bible to interpret the Bible.
In Genesis 1:6 we read
And God said, ‘Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.’
And this is quite consistent with the beliefs of the Semetic peoples living in the Middle East during the Bronze Age. The sky was a solid dome that kept the waters of heaven separated from the earth below, and that this heavenly resevoir was the source of rain, which fell through openings in this dome.
By interpreting this verse literally, we can conclude that the sky is a solid dome which held up a heavenly resevoir of water.
Of course, I don't recall Jesus making direct reference of this heavenly dome, so perhaps one can still be a Christian if one doesn't believe it. I have my doubts though....

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 168 of 178 (216690)
06-13-2005 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 1:40 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
quote:
I'm obviously not getting through to you.
I don't see a contradiction between interpreting the bible literally
and literally interpreting a figurative verse.
I never said that THAT was a contradiction. In fact it is the only way to read the Bible entirely literal - to ignore the fact that some verses are clearly poetic and not intended to be read literally. The contradiction is between FIGURATIVE and LITERAL interpretation.
quote:
For example: Jesus is the Lamb of God.
To interpret that literally, one would come to the interpretation that Jesus is the sacrafice that God requires...
.
No, literally it means that Jesus is a young sheep beloning to God [/quote] ...It is a figure of speech, but to interpret it literally would not mean Jesus has hooves and wool. So where is the confusion. [/quote]
The confusion is obviously in your idea that reading it literally doesn't mean reading it literally. If you could just understand that figurative readings ARE NOT LITERAL then the confusion would go away.

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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 169 of 178 (216700)
06-13-2005 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 1:48 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
Follow these steps and then see if you have the same question:
Yes, I still have the same question. As someone has already pointed out, the copy you are reading is an interpretation of an interpretation, which itself cames from who knows how many generations of oral interpretation before it entered written form (the original of which we do not have).
So yes, I still have the same question.
Your list actually adds some more questions, but I have the feeling I'm not going to be getting any real answers from you, am I?

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 170 of 178 (216703)
06-13-2005 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 1:48 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
Siguiendo la
verdad
In reference to the two rules.
2. We must interpret the Bible literally-"as it is written".
3. The Bible is to be interpreted like any other book.
Does this mean we must interpret literally any other book? Let's say Little Red Riding Hood? Perhaps Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? Day of the Trifids?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 1:48 PM Siguiendo la verdad has replied

Replies to this message:
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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 178 (216711)
06-13-2005 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Silent H
06-13-2005 6:46 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
This is the last I'm going to comment about this, becuase I'm not being heard anyway. The following leads one to reject evolution if properly applied to Scripture.
First: http://www.carm.org/bible/interpret.htm, this give general intepretive guidelines
Second: Rules for interpretation
1. The Bible is its own interpreter.
2. We must interpret the Bible literally-"as it is written".
3. The Bible is to be interpreted like any other book.
4. Obscure parts of the Bible are to be interpreted by the clearer parts.
5. The implicit is to be interpreted in light of the explicit.
6. The rules of logic govern what can reasonably be drawn or deduced from Scripture.
Private interpretation is not a license for subjectivism. The principle of private interpretation carries with it the obligation to seek the correct interpretation of the Bible. Though each biblial text may have multiple applications, it has only one correct meaning.
Third: our aim in interpretation is to find out the meaning rather than to escape from it. We believe that although some passages are hard to understand, the basic message of the Bible is plain and public rather than esoteric and convoluted. To see why we think so, take a look at Isaiah 45:19, Isaiah 48:16 and John 18:20
Fourth: When applying these guidelines and rules on such Scripture as 19:3-8, we see that the very Christ that the bible speaks of, God incarnate, regards the creation acount as somethng that acctually happened as a historical event, the very foundation of marriage is found in the Genesis creation account. God making man and woman fully formed and complete from the beginning and putting the two together is how we know that marriage is between a man and a woman. Now if man came from a single cell, the institution of marriage is simply man made, and what man put together, man can break, but Jesus says otherwise.
3. Pharisees came. As usual, ready to oppose. Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? Hillel, the greatest of the Jewish Rabbins whom Jews have sought to compare with Christ, taught that almost any ground of displeasure on the part of a husband would justify divorce. He even specifies scorching the bread as sufficient cause. Josephus, the historian, says he "divorced his wife because he was not pleased with her manners."
4, 5. Made them male and female. In the creation, God made man male and female and united the two by an indissoluble bond in the marriage of one man to one woman. For this cause. The bond of husband and wife is stronger than that between children and parents. Be one flesh. Two lives joined into one.
6. What God hath joined together. If God hath so joined them that the twain are one, no human ordinance has the right to separate them.
7, 8. Why then did Moses command? Deut. 24:1-4. They insinuate that he contradicts Moses. Moses, for your hardness of heart. Moses "suffered" some things that were not right on account of "the hardness of your heart," a low state of morals. A people cannot be lifted from moral depravity to a high standard at once. Hence the law permitted some things that were below the perfect standard of Christ. In the beginning. In the beginning there was no divorce and no polygamy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Silent H, posted 06-13-2005 6:46 PM Silent H has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 172 of 178 (216712)
06-13-2005 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 7:43 PM


Still waiting for an answer.
still waiting for an answer to Message 158

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 173 of 178 (216713)
06-13-2005 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by sidelined
06-13-2005 7:03 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
Of course. Little Red Riding Hood would be interpreted as it is written: a children's story because it is written as a children's book.

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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 178 (216714)
06-13-2005 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by jar
06-13-2005 11:03 AM


Re: Genesis
Yes

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by jar, posted 06-13-2005 11:03 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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Siguiendo la verdad
Inactive Member


Message 175 of 178 (216715)
06-13-2005 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Silent H
06-13-2005 6:46 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
If you have the same question, then you didn't honestly follow the rules of interpretation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Silent H, posted 06-13-2005 6:46 PM Silent H has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 176 of 178 (216716)
06-13-2005 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 7:48 PM


Re: Genesis
Are you more powerful or knowledgeable than GOD?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 177 of 178 (216718)
06-13-2005 7:56 PM


Closing for a bit
I'll close this while the participants figure out what the topic is supposed to be.

  
Silent H
Member (Idle past 5819 days)
Posts: 7405
From: satellite of love
Joined: 12-11-2002


Message 178 of 178 (216854)
06-14-2005 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Siguiendo la verdad
06-13-2005 7:50 PM


Re: Literal interpretation
If you have the same question, then you didn't honestly follow the rules of interpretation.
That is your interpretation. I still honestly have the same question, you are still dishonestly avoiding answering it.

holmes
"...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Siguiendo la verdad, posted 06-13-2005 7:50 PM Siguiendo la verdad has not replied

  
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