Is Evolution Intellectually Viable?

Does it sound logical or reasonable (when not even a single chance-formed protein can exist), that millions of such proteins combined in an order to produce the cell of a living thing; and that billions of cells managed to form and then came together by chance to produce living things; and that from them generated fish; and that those that passed to land turned into reptiles, birds, and that this is how all the millions of different species (including us) on earth were formed?Salam,
Ahmad

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Originally posted by Ahmad:
when not even a single chance-formed protein can exist

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And your evidence for this statement is what?------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

Your question includes a Creationist characterization of abiogenesis and evolution. Naturally any evolutionist would reply that it doesn't sound logical or reasonable, but only because these aren't the views of science on these topics.--Percy

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Originally posted by Percipient:
Your question includes a Creationist characterization of abiogenesis and evolution. Naturally any evolutionist would reply that it doesn't sound logical or reasonable, but only because these aren't the views of science on these topics.

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--Percy

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ummmmm...... where is message #2?------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

Ahmad,I thought you were talking about evolution, but judging from your actual post you are talking about abiogenesis. Make your mind up!Mark------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
ummmmm...... where is message #2?[/B][/QUOTE]Boy, nothing slips by you guys, does it? Okay, you got me, I confess, I did it. I once again accidentally posted as Admin instead of Percipient. I'll probably get suspended now. Geez!--Percy

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Originally posted by Ahmad:
Does it sound logical or reasonable (when not even a single chance-formed protein can exist), that millions of such proteins combined in an order to produce the cell of a living thing; and that billions of cells managed to form and then came together by chance to produce living things; and that from them generated fish; and that those that passed to land turned into reptiles, birds, and that this is how all the millions of different species (including us) on earth were formed?

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Salam,
Ahmad

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Can anyone tell me the fallacy he is using here?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Percipient:
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
ummmmm...... where is message #2?[/B][/QUOTE]Boy, nothing slips by you guys, does it? Okay, you got me, I confess, I did it. I once again accidentally posted as Admin instead of Percipient. I'll probably get suspended now. Geez!--Percy[/B][/QUOTE]That's ok, you'll be in good company.

"Can anyone tell me the fallacy he is using here? "
--Strawman? Or maybe Misrepresentation? Wait, even worse, a misrepresented strawman. :\------------------

AhmadYour representaion of the evoltuionary scenario is too simplistic and your facts about proteins are plain wrong. Take it from a creationist who does protein engineering and follows the directed evoltuion literature.Nevertheless, your basic point of view is correct, evolutionists need to have just as much faith as deists (EDIT: I mean theist), if not more.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 11-05-2002]

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Originally posted by Tranquility Base:

Nevertheless, your basic point of view is correct, evolutionists need to have just as much faith as deists, if not more.

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Please, in this context faith is irrelevant since there is more than enough credible evidence in favor of evolution to show that it is real. You may as well say the same of gravity. All Creationists have is faith since there is no credible evidence in favor of it.BTW, what does deism have to do with this?

^ Doesn't deists mean believers in God (deities)?And I believe in evolution too - just not the molecules to man extrapolation. I could be sitting next to you in a seminar on genomic evolution saying 'Amen collegue' and yet still be a YEC. Genomes have evolved.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 11-05-2002]

Originally posted by Tranquility Base:^ Doesn't deists mean believers in God (deities)? Deists are those who believe in god, but that god did his/her/its thing and left us to our own "devices".Theist:

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1. One who believes in the existence of a god or gods

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Deist:

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1. A person who believes that God created the universe and then abandoned itAnd I believe in evolution too - just not the molecules to man extrapolation.Than you don't actually believe in evolution. What you believe in is a creationist's cartoon version of evolution.[This message has been edited by nos482, 11-05-2002]

"Than you don't actually believe in evolution."
--Evolution = Change through time. Or would you rather prefer a change of allele frequencies over time. Either way, as I too find no difficulty with accepting this, is accepting evolution.--Edit - With your edited addition of "What you believe in is a creationist's cartoon version of evolution." It is obvious that as I explained above, this is not a 'creationist's cartoon', dispite how much you may desire that it be the contrary.------------------[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 11-05-2002]

Fair enough Nos.I take your point. I checked it on dictionary.com so it's not just an E vs C definition.You're right I mean theist.My so-called cartoon version of evolution is the evoltuion supported by the data! Allelic substitutions, gene duplictions, deletions etc etc. Adaptaiton of genes to the environemtn. Sure. It's all fact.Did a functioning human genome arrive this way in the first place? That's not fact and I don't accept that sort of evolution as proven.[This message has been edited by Tranquility Base, 11-05-2002]