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Author | Topic: Where Did Big Bang Energy Come From? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6384 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
I think in the buz scheme of things the answer to all your questions (even the ones you haven't asked ) is :
Goddidit There may be some hand waving in the general direction of the laws of physics or what have you but at the end of the day it all comes down to God can do whatever he wants. Oops! Wrong Planet
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nipok Inactive Member |
In Jehovah God's Universe; time, energy and boundless space had no beginning and will have no ending. The universe, by and through him, is, has always been and forever will be intelligently designed, changed and managed by his providence. I lean more towards ID as well and agree that it can exist in tandem with an infinite Universe and that all we know is just one of an infinite number of similar pockets of space time. My question to Buz though is whether your philosphy then includes the belief that a universe existed for an infinite length of time before the creation of our solar system and will exist for an infinite length of time after the demise of our sun and our individual eternal existence is based on a finite time on this planet ? This message has been edited by nipok, 05-18-2005 02:50 AM
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Vash Inactive Member |
Were there laws concerning matter and conservation of energy before the big bang?
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
No one knows where the energy came from. And more importantly, what exactley is energy?
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Vash:
Vash writes:
Heh, a even better question is : Is a BEFORE the Big bang even possible considering time did not exist prior to the event. Were there laws concerning matter and conservation of energy before the big bang? "One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Dear 1.61803,
Do you not miscalculate or oversimplify relativistic theory stating: "time did not exist prior to the event" Do you speculate (dogmatically) your universe is just a finite space-time continuum? Or, worse, that no other universe(s) could possibly exist beyond my puny universe? Why must science-fairies (AKA, devils) so tenaciously whisper to us "cursed ignoramuses" that our "visible" universe is so "flat-earth-like"? Could Columbus have repeatedly professed similar error when he discovered Hispanola, N. America, and finally, the United States of Texas? This message has been edited by Philip, 05-25-2005 12:43 PM
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Vash Inactive Member |
Phil try and make sense. And that is exactly my point, there was nothing, no time, no matter, no energy, no PHYSICAL LAWS.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 5939 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Vash
Phil try and make sense. And that is exactly my point, there was nothing, no time, no matter, no energy, no PHYSICAL LAWS. Actually Vash ,we do not know if there were physical laws or not.We can only make inferences about what should be happening at the beginning based on laws that allow us to derive a physical universe consistent with what we observe.In particle accelerators we areable to observe the actions of matter under the extremes of temperature and relativistic velocities.Our models of quantum mechanics allows us to say what is happening up to a certain point after the origin but not precisely at the beginning because of the nature of matter.That nature is quantum which is to say it comes in discrete packages which are of a finite size. From the Hyperphysics websitehttp://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/hframe.html Quantum properties dominate the fields of atomic and molecular physics. Radiation is quantized such that for a given frequency of radiation, there can be only one value of quantum energy for the photons of that radiation. The energy levels of atoms and molecules can have only certain quantized values. Transitions between these quantized states occur by the photon processes absorption, emission, and stimulated emission. The physical laws as we know them allow us only to determine what occurs to matter as a result of temperatures present at that moment.We can say what occurs at the moment 10^-43 sec after origin.The models we have do not allow us to speculate with any confidence beyond this.That is unfortunate but it is a product of the wave nature of matter and,at present,is the best we can do. 10^-43 second is a vanishingly small amount of time.There are also laws built into the universe that may prevent there being a time before this as a consequence of the structure of space-time.The uncertainty principle forbids there being a reltionship between energy and time smaller than a certain amount and is given by the formula dE x dt = h/2pi where d is means change in value and h is Planck's constant.There is also a relationship between momentum {p} and position {x} which follows the same formula and is written thus dp x dx = h/2pi/If we postulate that the universe had an origin at T=O then the energy scales to infinity and the monentum and position fall to 0 which viiolates the uncertainty principle.We are then faced with the question of how can the uncertainty principle be violated prior to this or failing that how does the uncertainty principle arise from a universe hat did not have it to begin with?
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Phillip writes:
Well,,,concidering that time is an expression of space no.
Do you not miscalculate or oversimplify relativistic theory stating: "time did not exist prior to the event"Phillip writes: Ummm...no. I speculate that you are introducing dogma.
Do you speculate (dogmatically) your universe is just a finite space-time continuum?Phillip writes: I am only aware of one universe that exist. Multi-universe theory, brane theory, and what ever other theories one cares to postulate are fun and interesting but in the end my puny universe seems to be mysterious enough.
Or, worse, that no other universe(s) could possibly exist beyond my puny universe?Phillip writes: I do not believe in fairies nor the devil. So if you are hearing whispers from such entities I suggest you seek psycological medical care. *edit to correct quote. Why must science-fairies (AKA, devils) so tenaciously whisper to us "curesd ignoramuses" that our "visible" universe is so "flat-earth-like"? This message has been edited by 1.61803, 05-26-2005 10:34 AM "One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Your first line isn't very clear and I suspect is wrong since we are not at all clear on what time is. I think you would be in trouble if asked to explain it at length (but that just might be because I know I would be).
The rest of them may be cute but I don't think they further the discussion at all.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Ok not a very useful post. I am perplexed by that statement concidering the post I was responding to was not very useful either. Nor is the one I am responding to now.
AdminNosy writes:
And with that I suggest that my statement is just as valid as yours or anyones elses then. And I think my statement is very clear...how can time exist in the absence of space?
Your first line isn't very clear and I suspect is wrong since we are not at all clear on what time is.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Welcome Vash.
Cosmic Speculation(s). I know what your saying theoretically applies to a closed "universal" systems. Who says our universe is closed?
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
I (personally) don't know what time really is, too.
"I really don't know clouds at all", sang one 60's artist (female). In sum, my invalidities and your invalidities don't justify anything as "clear" up to this point.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1535 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Hi Phillip, I like that song.
I will be a little clearer. Time may be just another example of natures tendency to merge the properties of the universe as with electricity and magnatism, energy and mass. Space and time. Time...does it exist in a vaccum? If nothing is moving, if there is no matter, no energy, no space then how can time exist? If the universe was once less than plankes size and TIME was once less than Plankes time then it is speculation on all counts what precedes those two measurements. But I believe that time was a result of big bang.Since the big bang at it's orgin was a singularity then in the absence of space,energy/matter there was no time. Once the event occured the concept of time as a component to the universe began, along with space, and matter. It is merely my own beliefs, no dogma I promise. Take care.
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Philip Member (Idle past 4753 days) Posts: 656 From: Albertville, AL, USA Joined: |
Very well...
I speculate somewhat the same (regarding this universe), non-dogmatically. The universe is a veritable expanse. Yesterday, I asked several younglings do you know what time is? One (girl) apologized and stated she didn’t have the time. The others stated they did not know what time is. A 14y/o youngling and I discussed time vs. clocks. Relativistic theories invoke time, gamma (speed of light), and gravity. Our puny clocks (e.g., diurnal and atomic clocks) do merely validate time’s behavior. And there are real time dilation-constrictions everywhere in the universe: The classic relativity example: If you were stationed here with me and if I decided to take a walk up the street (peradventure walking at nearly light-speed) then return back to you, you would have aged a bit faster, from my perspective. I would appear less aged than you, from your perspective Bare with me and this hypothesis Now (any lurker help), hypothetically, the big bang energy had to be enormous enough to initially expand the universe at nearly the speed of light. Notwithstanding, all universe-objects approach nearly INFINITE MASS during a big-bang gamma-event. E=mCC What kind of enormous and excellent (non-chaotic) energy existed to do that big bang? Atomic and sub-atomic energies are pathetically puny and chaotic, here! Why the distant light-trails of outlying stars presently manifest NO GRAVITATIONAL SPACE-TIME CURVATURE, telescopically (to the best of myknowledge). The universe appears infinite, thus. Also, this universe cannot effectively survive more than a few billion years (e.g., 20 billion years? 30 billion years?). This, methinks, is because of the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the short lives of elements, or something. Am I correct to conclude and theorize?: 1) The enormous nature of the big-bang energy seems supernatural, originating from a fully omnipotent power, that is, EX-NIHILO, from God? 2) The very excellent (non-chaotic) nature of the big-bang energy suggests that the big-bang energy originated (somehow) from an infinitely beneficent redeeming ID, that is, from God’s Christ?
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