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Member (Idle past 332 days) Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Where does the gravity go? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Funkaloyd Inactive Member |
Sorry to backtrack...
JonF writes: JustinC writes: Does a moving body have more gravity than a body at rest? My logic is that its kinetic energy would increase, and hence its mass Yes. Can you go into more detail? My understanding was that as an object approaches the speed of light its resistance to force will increase but its active gravitational mass will not.
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sidelined Member (Idle past 6233 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
Funkaloyd
The active gravitaional mass of a body remains the same,that is, the force of acceleration it produces upon a body remains constant. The inertial mass increases as the speed increases since mass and energy are equivalent The more energy used to accelerate a mass{the two being the same} the greater the measure of the resistence to being further accelerated and at light speed the mass becomes infinite which requires infinite energy to further accerate it.
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
So how is New Zealand? Do you go to school? Do you watch the stars?
Welcome to EvC. ![]()
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Funkaloyd Inactive Member |
...Thanks. Hi Phatboy, everyone.
I made the mistake of leaving school early (am now waiting to get into a uni course), and I "observe" the stars frequently.
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chark Inactive Member |
I am going to head back to the speculation that energy has gravity. I believe it does but we can not effectively measure it since one atom contains in the upper billions of joules of energy and since we can not contain large enough amounts of energy to equal the corresponding amount of matter (according to E=mc2)in a large enough quanity to measure its gravity, I don't know of any current way to measure "the gravity of energy" outside of knowing the exact amounts of matter and energy in our sun. But if energy does emit gravity then that could help answer questions about dark matter. Dark matter is the made up factor in wide scale physics. I am saying that dark matter is actually light matter. That is all of the light, heat, and radiation energy in the universe (or gravitational vicinity) that is throwing off calculations.
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1.61803 Member (Idle past 1829 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: |
Does gravity have gravity?
Where in the Universe is the Universe? What is energy? Inquiring minds want to know. ![]()
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 192 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
chark writes:
The problem with this is that there aren't enough light around to account for the missing mass. As was pointed out earlier, fusion in a star convert very little mass into a lot of energy, relatively.
That is all of the light, heat, and radiation energy in the universe (or gravitational vicinity) that is throwing off calculations. I believe it does but we can not effectively measure it since one atom contains in the upper billions of joules of energy and since we can not contain large enough amounts of energy to equal the corresponding amount of matter (according to E=mc2)in a large enough quanity to measure its gravity
If we invent a measuring instrument so sensitive that we can measure the affect a very massive object has on light, we can effectively measure how much gravity light has. This is because F = Gm1m2/r^2 Normally, we only put the mass of the object into account. However, if we have a instrument sensitive enough, we can also put light into account.
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chark Inactive Member |
hmm...I see but how far off are the calculations that would require the existence of dark matter. Wouldn't all of the radiation traveling through the vacum of space and all of the energy from the stars and planets emit enough gravity to throw it off?
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 192 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Current estimates reveal that about 25-30% of the universe is made of the visible matter, about 30-35% is made of dark matter, and about 60-65%ish is made of dark energy.
Some people may disagree whether it is 30 or 30.5 or whatever, but as you can see visible matter only make up a tiny portion of our universe. Astronomers in the early 20th century estimated that invisible stuff they called dark matter occupied up to 90% of our galaxy. If you want, I can give a more detailed explanation to how astronomers came up with these calculations. This message has been edited by Troy, 05-09-2005 09:58 PM
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chark Inactive Member |
Please do tell.
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Wounded King Member (Idle past 357 days) Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
Doesn't that give us at least 115% of a universe? Or is there some overlap?
TTFN, WK
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 192 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Everything is a rough estimate.
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Sylas Member (Idle past 5585 days) Posts: 766 From: Newcastle, Australia Joined: |
"Troy" writes: Current estimates reveal that about 25-30% of the universe is made of the visible matter, about 30-35% is made of dark matter, and about 60-65%ish is made of dark energy. Actually, current estimates for the energy budget are 4% baryonic matter, 23% non-baryonic matter, 73% dark energy, and negligible fractions radiation. You have to be careful reading the percentages, since you can give percentages in relations to different things. The fractions above are proportions of the energy budget for a flat universe. You will also see quoted fractions of the total matter making up the universe. Baryonic matter means matter like we know and love. Of the Baryonic matter, some is luminous, and some is dark. It seems to be roughly about 10% of baryonic matter is actually visible. The term "dark matter" can refer to both non-luminous ordinary matter, and exotic non-baryonic matter. Cheers -- Sylas
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 192 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
You're probably right. It's been a while since I checked the info.
Are machos considered baryonic or non-baryonic matter?
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nipok Inactive Member |
Humor me for a second. Lets suppose that there are particles of matter that we do not yet have the scientific precision to measure or see. Lets suppose the that the subatomic particles that we currently think are the building blocks of all matter are actually in fact made of up of smaller particles that are in turn made up of smaller particles.
If this is possible then there exists the possibility that these particles through the same natural laws that bind everything else in the universe could at times bond or attract to similar ones creating larger particles and appear seemingly out of nowhere for an instant. If this was true then we might see the effects of these briefly living imaginary particles but what we would have a more difficult time seeing would be the abundance of these tiny sub-quark and sub-lepton particles that would exist everywhere. And I mean tiny on the scale of a lepton to a proton and many times smaller. Energy in flux, and where ever possible bonding back into the building blocks of atomic building blocks. The total sum of these unseen supersubatomics could account for the missing variables in dark matter equations. I also strongly belief that the day will come where the 4 accepted forces will be unified through an Aetheric Density Quotient. It is this Aetheric Density that will prove to be the missing link in attempts to come up with a single equation that will demonstrate that gravity, weak, and strong forces are all in fact different forms of electromagnetism. Electromagnetism is the general principle that the other three forces will be shown to be derived from based on Aetheric Density. This to me seems so evident just by examining where we place our satellites above our planet in regards to our own atmosphere. By comparing how gravity equates in the forces needed by a satellite trying to maintain an orbit below 100km verses how it compares for satellites farther outside the upper boundaries of our atmosphere it becomes evident that gravity is directly related to the density of the energy mass that the gravitational waves travel on. Einstein worked for a long time trying to understand Aether and it was in those attempts that he found how time and space can appear to curve through the Aether. Had he lived another 50 years he probably would have found the Aether. Now it is up to us.
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