No need for grunt work? *Societal Roles*

Technological advances since the industrial revolution have provided mankind less need for hard work, heavy lifting, and work that mainly males would do during this time. "Grunt work" has been disappearing, as humans rely on machines and other tools to take away this sort of labor.My biology teacher talked about human genetics and sort of deliberately went on a tangent to make points about humanity. He started by telling the class about cows, and how scientists actually figured out how to make hermaphrodite cows.. negating a need for the "bull" on the farm!My teacher than crudely compared human males to the bulls. He told us that if we knew any farmers, they would probably tell us that they would rather have female cows used for producing milk. They are more efficient producers. He said that the hermaphrodites would drive out the bulls and that production on dairy farms would skyrocket.He tied this to humans. He jokingly said that when women realize this, they would take over the world in revenge, and that he was making data in support of women when this day would happen to secure his safety! Ending the physical gap between men and women would make men and women more equal than ever before. Aside from the jokes, this is a really important point that he made, really condemning the oppression that men have put on women for so long, maybe stemming from this difference in physical ability.I was wondering if anyone could comment on the thoughts above, maybe shed some light on this gloomy reality.http://home.att.net/~Raidcon/galactus.jpgThis message has been edited by AdminPhat, 04-24-2005 03:06 AM

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Miscellaneous Topics in Creation/Evolution
Can't decide what forum your topic belongs in? Perhaps it belongs here!

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Maybe?

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porteus@gmail.com

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Although I agree that gap of gender roles have certainly narrowed quite a bit in the last half of the century (I'm stuck in a time warp, I still think in terms of 20th century), I don't agree that the physical gap could ever end. There are biological traits in either sex that the other one doesn't have. For example, we know for a fact that men could never carry a fetus inside his... thing. The only way to really end the physical gap is to do what the Asgard did.

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Asgard?My bio teacher talked about lung capacity, difference in height in men and women. He mentioned that production of testosterone "helps" men do things. Do you know what is meant by that?There seems to be a need for the roles that culture has dictated, (as schraf said) but how far can we go until we realize that they mean nothing? And when can mankind finally put to rest the inequalities between man and woman. I am wondering really, about some of the differences in men and women, if they are significant.My prediction is that they are not truly significant, but are there to establish guidelines in survival, or guidelines in life.This topic was kind of sparked through a conversation that I had at a track invitational with the female bus driver. It was a great conversation, she seemingly is a republican, that is for human rights. She said some things that made me think and I would like to hear from some of you. Also, on a side note, she didn't like the new pope because he was too "straight edge", (she was probably catholic) but she voted for prez bush.I talked to her about the sexist greek philosophers, by today's standards. And how they could not realize that women weren't educated like men, making them difficult to hold conversations with. But it started when I asked what she did for a living, she said before she divorced her husband, she was a housewife, and raised children. I then said, the gender roles (or societal roles w/e) are changing, and she said yes, I know. Now men and women have to work... Just to support the family's demands. She really amazed me, she lived through a time of oppression, even in today's socities my global teacher talks about "glass cielings".Women have survived a lot because of power hungry men, and I agree with my bio teacher, they have the right to take over the world.Before the last couple of weeks, I was paranoid about commercials with a fat white husband and a beautiful wife, I would hate to see commercials with blatantly dumb men, and smart women. Many sitcoms like this. But whatever, it doesn't matter, and it doesn't help me whatsoever to spend the time to think about these trivial ideas, and society's ever changing expectation. Society became the world.This message has been edited by prophex, 04-24-2005 06:13 PM

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porteus@gmail.com

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If you mean that you do not think that we should have the goal of women and men becoming the same, I agree.

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I'm sure that's what he meant.

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porteus@gmail.com

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added in edit: women in the developed world on average earn around 70% as much as men do, for doing the same work. If you believe that there is a physical reason for this disparity in earnings, for the same work, you will need to provide me with some evidence. You will need to show that short men get paid 70% of the earnings of tall men, and that men with small lungs get paid 70% of the earnings of men with large lungs, for example. If you can show this, then I will accept that differences in the physical ability of human beings result in pay differences (i.e. discrimination), otherwise I must assume that the discrimination suffered by women is not due to physical differences between women and men

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You have misconstrued my post.Over time, men have oppressed women, this may have been at first sparked due to physical differences. Simply a speculation.

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porteus@gmail.com

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good, so there is no physical basis for human sex discrimination.

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That is the basis, is it not? When a man saw a woman could not carry as much, say in paleolithic times, this may have been sparked. Today, the discrimination is based solely on difference in a world where how much you can carry doesn't count.

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porteus@gmail.com

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Protectors of Earth.

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Oh, you were referring to the old Thor comics? With the ruler Odin of Asgard? Man those comics were cool. Nowadays good comics just don't exist. Art today has even become worse. (comics)

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porteus@gmail.com

Oh, thanks for the info. I can't spell Thor's hammer like you!

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porteus@gmail.com

How do you think sexism started?
And more importantly why? Motives.I'm curious, in no way do I disagree with you really.

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porteus@gmail.com

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And I think this is echoed in many early mythologies in which a male deity ritually supercedes a female deity; for example, the Aztech god Quetzalcoatl, IIRC, birthed himself by cutting his way out of his mothers womb. Thus, the female genitive power is subordinated to male genitive power in the ritual construction of tribal identity.

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Ok.I agree although I don't really like the way you have described this belief. This is what a society once believed was true, and something that connected them spiritually. Analyzing it like that, is sort of a dishonor to another's religion. The title mythology is part of a thought that anything that we could see today as ludicris, is labeled with and put into books with fantastic pictures, leaving out the people that actually put life into their religion. I don't think that is right.

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porteus@gmail.com

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But patriarchy is much more than just a gendered division of labour, whether that division is based on physical differences or not. If in palaeolithic times men could carry more than women, then it might be sensible for... erm... men to carry more than women.

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So what are the differences that has established "patriarchy"? You are disagreeing, I am interested in what you think is or are the main differences in men and women that made life more difficult for women, or is it just the way things go naturally?

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porteus@gmail.com

No, I mean, what cause what we call today "sexism". As in what are the differences that made women become oppressed in history. Child birth amazed paleolithic man, so much so, that women were worshipped. But I think that is still very much the case, turn on t.v. Thats how tv networks get people to stay on the channel these days.Oh and the knowledge leeching, yeah no 8 hour track meet today..

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porteus@gmail.com

Perhaps, if the word "feminist" was not included in the link.Gotta stay away from those biased articles. lol

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porteus@gmail.com

Bikinis, MTV, stuff like that.

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porteus@gmail.com