A Question for EvC's Great Minds to answer:

Loudmouth writes:

quote:

---

For your paper I might compare the current debate between creationism and evolution with the previous debate between geocentrism and heliocentrism. This debate happened many years ago between science (ie Galileo) and religion (ie The Inquisition). It has a lot of similarities with the debate between science and religion today.

---

I agree, and rather than just compare them I think the evc debate could be presented as simply one more iteration of the age-old religion vs. science debate. The issues of that debate change over time, but the essential question is always one of faith vs. evidence.

---

Keep America Safe AND Free!

Exactly, there is your debate. I, a christian say GOD created. You say (I assume) that life, in general, evoloved. And so it goes. I say we should teach creationism and evolution with the same vigor and let the students study it for themselves and come to an educated conclusion. Anybody here have a problem with that. -Z

What I'm getting at is that the world, religious or not, is sinfull. And "worldly things" are aka sinfull things in general. That's what I'm getting at. I know the world has a religious majority, but it's still worldly. If not why would there be such a problem with catholic priests and young boys and girls? -Z

Let me get this correct. You're saying that most churches believe what the bible doesn't teach. That God didn't create that He created so to evolve? And you are speaking for the vast majority of churches as was I so who exactly is correct? I for one have never heard any Pope or christian scholar say anything except the opposite of what you are implying. I guess everyone that went to theology classes and recieved there diplomas and doctorates are wrong.....I'll let them know. -Z

Yup.

The very concept of being "sinfull" is religious. You are talking as if you have authority over what is and isn't truth based on your own personal theological standpoint.If you think we, as worldly beings, are such a bad thing, would you recommend we all point a gun to our heads and put ourselves out of our worldly misery so that we can become non-worldly beings?To be honest, the more I read your posts, the more I think you are full of it. No offense.

Not to start a battle of the links, but I'm tired of having to repeat myself 20 million times on a hundred things to people.CATHOLIC LIBRARY: Truth Cannot Contradict Truth (1996)There is one example that you have never heard of. Yup, the world is a much bigger place than your house.

Which creationism do we teach? There are thousands of creation myths out there. Oh wait, you mean we should teach the christian creation myth along with the scientific theory. Ok, I get it...

quote:

---

Exactly, there is your debate. I, a christian say GOD created. You say (I assume) that life, in general, evoloved. And so it goes. I say we should teach creationism and evolution with the same vigor and let the students study it for themselves and come to an educated conclusion. Anybody here have a problem with that. -Z

---

That is the discussion. Should religious views be part of a natural science? This is what led to the debate between the Church and Galileo. Galileo, using science, said that the earth orbited the sun. The Church, using scripture, said that the sun orbited the earth. Which should we teach, that science is wrong if it contradicts the bible or that our interpretation of the Bible is wrong if it contradicts science?

Hi, Zach, how would it work making creationism/science compulsory in schools? Do Catholics insist on the New Jerusalem Bible. Protestants plump for the NASB, Jews won`t use anything but the JPS Bible, while atheists can select a Bible of choice?

none taken. I don't expect you to understand what I'm talking about.

lol. Yeah, I guess it would be a free-for-all. BYOB. Bring your own bible. Nobody is going to let anyone come close to a school if a bible is in hand.

Actually Zack, there is nothing wrong with bringing a bible to school. Kids do it all the time and its perfectly legal. Anyone who finds this is NOT so should immediatly contact their local ACLU.

---

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"select * from USERS where CLUE > 0http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
http://perditionsgate.bravepages.com

Proximate causes:1. ignorance. From what I know of the US education system, it is not very good until you get to graduate school. The US public appears to be very afraid of anything that challenges the "traditional" view of life, or the "american way". The war on drugs, war against communism, war against terror, war against evolution - these are all rooted in the fear of ignorant people of anything outside their narrow experience.2. religion. People in the US are FAR more religious than in any other developed country. Many people are happy to reject any reasonable information and theories that challenge their precious religious doctrines. Many decision makers in the political system make a big show of their religious credentials and put religion directly into their policies. Elsewhere, this is is extremely rare. In Europe, for example, overtly religious political organizations are generally sidelined as microparties. Even a religious person like Tony Blair doesn't explicitly relate his policies to his religious beliefs, and the majority of the UK population would be appalled if he were to do so, because religion is seen as a private matter rather than a public matter. The US is exceptional in that religion is seen as a public virtue rather than a completely private matter that should be irrelevant to politics.Ultimate cause:1. anti-rationalism as a tool of social control. In the US, antirationalism has been made into a virtue. Look at the political opinions that tend to go along with anti-evolutionism. These people are often conservative, religious, poorly-educated people. This combination of characteristics makes a constituency that is ideal for manipulation by powerful vested interests such as the churches and the media. If you read "Manufacturing consent" by Herman and Chomsky you will see that rational free-thinking people are anathema to the rightwing political agenda that dominates in the US. The attacks on evolution through the media and with the support of the conservative right fit quite neatly into H&C's thesis. it's just another prong in the attack against rationality in the US.This message has been edited by mick, 04-27-2005 12:32 PM

Hi, Mick, even scarier is the attack of the conservative,religious, HIGHLY-educated, wealthy people who either openly or tacitly support the anti-rational agenda. Almost like a conspiracy--------