Simple evidence for ID

In a sunday schooling class I had a long time ago, a classmate of mine once stated that people were too perfect for everything to be an accident. And it wasn't just people. To him, nature was too wonderous to not have a creator.Romans 1:20 "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.A self proclaimed great philosopher once said, "The simple fact of how things look the way they do, how humans look like humans and leaves look like leaves is evidence for intelligent design."I look out my window and I see people walking, some in pairs, around while others sitting beneath trees reading. I see trees with green leaves and birds flying among blossoming flowers. I look up and I see little patches of white clouds drifting across the blue sky with the sun shining everywhere.Most importantly, I see individual humans having legs to walk around, having arms and hands to work and build things, having eyes to see and ears to hear, having minds to learn, grow, and dream, having mouths to eat and talk, etc.Coincidence that everything I described, and more!, fit so well together on this world?To quote a preacher I once listened to, "scientists and professors may have a lot of facts, but I see no wisdom in them." While they see a process driven in part by randomness and godlessness, others see a creator behind all of these wonders.Job 12:7-11 "But ask the animals, and they will teach you, or the birds of the air, and they will tell you; or speak to the earth, and it will teach you, or let the fish of the sea inform you. Which of all these does not know that the hand of the lord has done this? In his hand is the life of every creature and the breath of all mankind. Does not the ear test words as the tongue tastes food? I think it is obvious where I want this to go.This message has been edited by Troy, 04-24-2005 03:56 PM

Shouldn't you be thanking me for getting a thread started for you? I'm done. I now formally turn this thread over to Chris.Peace!

Ok, fine, I'm taking this thread back. Watching Harry Potter right now...

Perhaps because I used to believe this?I've taken back this thread and I intend to pursue it.

It is also possible that the imperfection in the human mind (the physical barriers) are meant as an incentive for us to better ourselves. Why would we build computers and softwares to compute things for us if we have the mindpower to do them ourselves?

You have just stumbled into the age old question of where did evil/bad things come from? From what I know, we are meant to to have dominion over all other creatures on Earth. However, the Genesis account doesn't really say if we are the most intelligent creatures in the universe.Gen 1:26-28

quote:

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Then god said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, "be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

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I think this myth is due more to ignorance than anything. If this is true, christians should be the most environmental people, not the atheistic liberals. If every creature has a purpose and that everything is in this great ever unchanging balance, then it would be really bad if we start wiping out whole populations, which we have been doing for the last thousand years or so.

You are forgetting that populations of humans are seperated by geographical barriers, most notably distance. Your statement above assumes that everybody lived in one place.

Oops, I missed this post.Haven't you ever heard of the fall?

Not necessarily. Remember that God has free will. If God decided to not create perfect versions of human beings, then he certainly had every right not to create perfect versions of human beings.One can only speculate why God decided not to make everything perfect for us.Gen 3:17 "And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;"Gen 3:22 "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"Pretty self explanatory there.Another possible reason is that God wanted us to know good. But in order to what is good, we must also have to know what is bad. Without what is bad, we wouldn't be able to appreciate or recognize what is good.Here is something from my own experience. I occasionally play starcraft online against other people. Because I play against other people, sometimes (very rare though) I don't win and sometimes I am beaten badly. Why don't I play against the computer knowing that I can win all the time? Why don't I play against newbies players? Because whenever I win against a really good player I feel good! One time I met this guy (username cruelintentions) who is probably the best player on battlenet. He and I had a match of 5 games. I lost the first 4 games and managed to win the last. You know how good I felt after I won that last game?Sure, it sucks for the guy that (I wanna use the word looses... loses but I don't know which one to use so...) doesn't win.Again, the question is why don't I just play against newbies or the computer to win all the time? PS I'm one of the best players on battlenet. So, it's getting increasingly difficult to find players worth playing against.

I don't mean to jump in the middle of your conversations, but just so you know that those diagrams you often see in text books are not really what DNA and proteins look like. They are just representations of what they are to make it easier for people to understand. Actually, it does absolutely nothing according to our current understanding of genetics. What other bases are there? Trust me, it won't help. It's possible. There are many useful body parts nowadays that were once useless. Not just evolutionists, but everybody that has an understanding of empirical science. We only know what we can measure and experiment with. Although it is possible that these genes have their own useful functions, based on our current understanding of genetics they don't. And we can't start saying that they are purposeful even though we don't know what they do. Make sense? There's no such word in science. Perhaps you would like to submit it to the peer review system?