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Author | Topic: If god has a plan, then doesn't that make prayer worthless? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
purpledawn Member (Idle past 3777 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote:In the Bible there are three kinds of prayer: Prayers of Praise, Prayers of Thanks, and Prayers of Request. Obviously your thread is dealing with prayers of request. I've notice that many who are answering you are avoiding your main point.
quote:The OT God seems to have a general plan as outlined roughly in the 10 commandments. Worship God, don't kill, steal, etc. It doesn't seem to present a God who is a micromanager determining ahead of time all the tiny details of mankind (death, birth, etc.) Moses and Lot both asked God to alter His actions and God did. The NT seems to start the predetermination scenerio. If God has a general plan and can effect outcomes, does that necessarily rule out that he is omnipotent or infallible? "The average man does not know what to do with this life, yet wants another one which lasts forever." --Anatole France
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tsig Member (Idle past 3229 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
He is wise beyond our comprehension. If he is beyond comprehension, how do you know he is wise?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1787 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
If he is beyond comprehension, how do you know he is wise? Oh, don't you know? He's beyond comprehension until something happens that they can credit to God to stick it to the atheists; when that happens suddenly all the believers are experts about God.
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Phat Member Posts: 18712 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
DHA writes: If he is beyond comprehension, how do you know he is wise?![]()
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tsig Member (Idle past 3229 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
I think God planned for us to have eternal life. So god's plan failed?
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Phat Member Posts: 18712 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
DHA writes: I think that God foreknew the result from Eden. It is not as if He slapped His almighty forehead and said "Doh". Those humans! Now what do I do? So god's plan failed? He foreknew that sending His Son to bail us out was the original plan to begin with! Eternal life is an option and a choice. If one fervantly believes in no God and that when they die they become wormfood, Eternal life will STILL be an option upon their death. To reject it then on the grounds that freedom of rational thought supercedes truth would be ludicrous yet allowable. God will not force anyone to play nicely in Heaven with the other children.
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tsig Member (Idle past 3229 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
Lets put it this way....If He is stupid, than we are all in a heap of trouble! Why?
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Phat Member Posts: 18712 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
crashfrog writes: Certainly not experts, although every chance that I get to tell the little froggies that God loves them I do so. Oh, don't you know? He's beyond comprehension until something happens that they can credit to God to stick it to the atheists; when that happens suddenly all the believers are experts about God. I certainly have no more motive to "stick it to the atheists" than they would have about refuting me.
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tsig Member (Idle past 3229 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
Oh, don't you know? He's beyond comprehension until something happens that they can credit to God to stick it to the atheists; when that happens suddenly all the believers are experts about God. Yeah, first the believers tell us what god wants, then when pressed says we cannot understand god's mind. Doublethink in action.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 736 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
We go from glory to glory.
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tsig Member (Idle past 3229 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
I think that God foreknew the result from Eden. It is not as if He slapped His almighty forehead and said "Doh". Those humans! Now what do I do? He foreknew that sending His Son to bail us out was the original plan to begin with! Eternal life is an option and a choice. If one fervantly believes in no God and that when they die they become wormfood, Eternal life will STILL be an option upon their death. To reject it then on the grounds that freedom of rational thought supercedes truth would be ludicrous yet allowable. God will not force anyone to play nicely in Heaven with the other children. Your god seems anthropomorfic
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Phat Member Posts: 18712 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Your god seems anthropomorfic Well how else can He relate to us? That is why His character is Jesus and not Flipper or Gentle Ben.
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tsig Member (Idle past 3229 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
Well how else can He relate to us? That is why His character is Jesus and not Flipper or Gentle Ben. So god's plan is to give us a choice that he knows we will screw up, then kill himself to correct the problem and afterwards burn all those who can't see it?
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Phat Member Posts: 18712 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
DHA writes: Not exactly. Gods plan is to give us a choice that we can accept if we are willing to give up our sturbborn idea that we know the answer. So god's plan is to give us a choice that he knows we will screw up, then kill himself to correct the problem and afterwards burn all those who can't see it? He never killed Himself but, rather, gave His life over and allowed that same stubborn spirit that thought that it knew the answer to kill Him through those people who were themselves zealous know-it-alls. Still, He never sends people to Hell. People send themselves there by continuing to follow that deifying spirit of know-it-all that proclaims itself to be as god.
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tsig Member (Idle past 3229 days) Posts: 738 From: USA Joined: |
He never killed Himself but, rather, gave His life over and allowed that same stubborn spirit that thought that it knew the answer to kill Him through those people who were themselves zealous know-it-alls. Still, He never sends people to Hell. People send themselves there by continuing to follow that deifying spirit of know-it-all that proclaims itself to be as god. Jesus allowed satan to kill him?
Still, He never sends people to Hell. People send themselves there by continuing to follow that deifying spirit of know-it-all that proclaims itself to be as god. So he just creates hell and greases the skids under all who do not believe as you do and is not responsible?
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