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Author Topic:   Structure and shape of the Universe
Eta_Carinae
Member (Idle past 4375 days)
Posts: 547
From: US
Joined: 11-15-2003


Message 16 of 22 (193964)
03-24-2005 6:59 AM


2 analogies that should be banned or at least..
used more carefully in physics:
1) The rubber sheet/balloon for representing spacetime
2) Decks of cards and similar analogies for order/disorder and thermodynamics
Balloons invariably lead to questions of "well what's inside the balloon" with people thinking about spacetime embedding in higher order spaces when there is no evidence of such.
Decks of cards and macroscopic order has nothing to do with entropy and by inference the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

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Jydee
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 22 (193972)
03-24-2005 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by contracycle
03-24-2005 6:31 AM


The problem is it is impossible to visualize a multidimensional object like the universe in a three dimensional world. The expanding balloon is the only model we have and that is way csomologist use it to explain the expanding universe to lay persons.
What about the brane and string theories?
The mysteries are increasing since the Ptolomy's universe and not decreasing!
Jydee

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Jydee
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 22 (193973)
03-24-2005 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Jydee
03-24-2005 7:49 AM


2 analogies that should be banned or at least..
2 analogies that should be banned or at least..
---------------------------------------------------------------------Imposible to get rid of anlogies. Our universe is probably a multidimensional object. Nobody knowns or is abble to represent it in a three dimensional world. Form our point of observation we are unale to see any limit or boundary. Will w ever know if there is anything beyond ?

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 19 of 22 (193981)
03-24-2005 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Jydee
03-24-2005 7:59 AM


Re: 2 analogies that should be banned or at least..
probably? i count at least 3.5 dimensions, and that's without really even looking very hard.
("seems, madam? nay, it is! i know not seems")
This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 03-24-2005 08:21 AM

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btseshasayee
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 22 (194263)
03-24-2005 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Eta_Carinae
03-24-2005 6:59 AM


Re: 2 analogies that should be banned or at least..
Yes,the expanding balloon analogy is certainly misleading. Perhaps it can be compared with an expanding sponge, whose overall density decreases but maintains its spacial homogeneity.

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Asgara
Member (Idle past 2303 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 21 of 22 (194265)
03-24-2005 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Eta_Carinae
03-24-2005 6:59 AM


Re: 2 analogies that should be banned or at least..
Eta, the analogy that my son always used for me was of raisin bread dough. The bread rises and expands in three dimensions but the raisin that are spread throughout the dough do not expand, they just get further apart in space and the dough section they are in expands away from the dough section the next raisin is in.
I am not very good at explaining myself here, but it did help me to understand better than the balloon analogy.
What do you, as a professional, think of it?

Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"
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http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com
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btseshasayee
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 22 (194267)
03-24-2005 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jydee
03-24-2005 3:44 AM


Thank you for responding. I will get back after going through the references given by you.

This message is a reply to:
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