NOMA - Is this the answer?

Originally posted by gene90:Just because it isn't pretty doesn't make it true. Really now, we don't need genes carried by suicidal people? They are inferior by virtue of the way they died? Worse, you believe that the world is better *without* them? The arrogance in that remark, and the extreme
disregard for a substantial segment of humanity, is astounding.Not as much as when missionaries go into less developed cultures and exterminate them all in the name of god.Bees and ants are hive insects, all descended from one individual. By sacrificing themselves to defend the nest they are helping perpetuate their own genes. This is just pure Darwinism.It can be the same with humans as well.It seems like you've moved back a bit from your assertion that everything people do is for sex. No, I had said that we do everything to prove our fitness to reproduce. Sex is only part of it as in the reward.

[QUOTE][B]Not as much as when missionaries go into less developed cultures and exterminate them all in the name of god.[/QUOTE][/B]Red herring.Besides, my church has never done that and I'm not aware of any Western church having done that in the last couple of centuries.Again, beware the Spotlight Fallacy. [QUOTE][B]It can be the same with humans as well. [/QUOTE][/B]Darwinian selection does apply in some cases but there is still self-sacrifice for what is believed to be a higher good, regardless of if it benefits the holder by propagating genes. [QUOTE][B]No, I had said that we do everything to prove our fitness to reproduce.[/QUOTE][/B]"Everything"? Again how does self-castration and suicide factor into that?[This message has been edited by gene90, 10-07-2002]

Originally posted by gene90:Red herring.Color is irrelevant.Besides, my church has never done that and I'm not aware of any Western church having done that in the last couple of centuries.Many of them believe that it is not genocide when you destroy a culture in god's name. That they are doing them a favor. Just recently in Central America a group of missionaries went in after an earthquake and were saying to the people there that if they didn't accept JESUS that they wouldn't help them and that their god didn't love them anymore and that is why they had the Earthquake.Darwinian selection does apply in some cases but there is still self-sacrifice for what is believed to be a higher good, regardless of if it benefits the holder by propagating genes.That's the excuse, but there are case of a parent "sacrificing" themself in order to save their children."Everything"? Again how does self-castration and suicide factor into that?It doesn't. It is an aberration. You are thinking in binary terms. I.E. Black and white, right or wrong, etc. And there is nothing more which reinforces this limited way of thinking than religion.[This message has been edited by nos482, 10-08-2002]

[QUOTE][B]Color is irrelevant.[/QUOTE][/B]Still obfuscating the point? [QUOTE][B]Many of them believe that it is not genocide when you destroy a culture in god's name.[/QUOTE][/B]Who's done that in the last 200 years? [QUOTE][B]That's the excuse, but there are case of a parent "sacrificing" themself in order to save their children.[/QUOTE][/B]Pure Darwinism. But that's another distraction.The point is, you're still wrong. Not everything we do is for sex and now you are trying to change the subject. [QUOTE][B]Just recently in Central America a group of missionaries went in after an earthquake and were saying to the people there that if they didn't accept JESUS that they wouldn't help them and that their god didn't love them anymore and that is why they had the Earthquake[/QUOTE][/B]Can you prove the missionaries wrong?Also, don't you think that doesn't quite qualify as violating human rights? Much less as genocide? I can walk up to somebody and tell them the same thing and get laughed at, but there isn't anything wrong or immoral about it.Finally, considering some of the things you have said in the past, I think it is fair that I ask that you support this claim. You've spent your credibility for all it was worth already, between the Bard's KJV and the suicidal lemmings, I've about heard enough bull that I think I should ask for a cite for pretty much everything you say. [QUOTE][B]And there is nothing more which reinforces this limited way of thinking than religion.[/QUOTE][/B]Red herring. Stick to the subject or admit defeat, otherwise you are wasting time you could spend more profitably elsewhere.[This message has been edited by gene90, 10-08-2002]

Originally posted by gene90:Still obfuscating the point?In what way?Who's done that in the last 200 years? In South-East Asia.Pure Darwinism. But that's another distraction.I'm not the one who is distracted.The point is, you're still wrong. Not everything we do is for sex and now you are trying to change the subject.You're the one who says its about sex. I've said that it is about proving one's fittness to reproduce. You assume it is solely for sex.Can you prove the missionaries wrong?Irrelevant. They were refusing aid unless the natives converted. That is evil in and of itself.Finally, considering some of the things you have said in the past, I think it is fair that I ask that you support this claim. You've spent your credibility for all it was worth already, between the Bard's KJV and the suicidal lemmings, I've about heard enough bull that I think I should ask for a cite for pretty much everything you say.All of that is nothing besides your imaginary "spirit witness".Red herring. Stick to the subject or admit defeat, otherwise you are wasting time you could spend more profitably elsewhere.You sure like fish, but that is totally irrelevant. The world is far from being as black and white as you want it to be. It is a rainbow of colors. Your way of "thinking" is a valid point here, because it shows just how limiting it can be in your perception of the real world around you. The universe is already amazing and wonderful without the need to invent imaginary gods.[This message has been edited by nos482, 10-08-2002]

[QUOTE][B]In what way?[/QUOTE][/B]The point is that people don't do everything for sex or to impress the opposite sex. Fight it or concede defeat. [QUOTE][B]In South-East Asia.[/QUOTE][/B]Cite? [QUOTE][B]I'm not the one who is distracted.[/QUOTE][/B]Ad hominem. [QUOTE][B]I've said that it is about proving one's fittness to reproduce. You assume it is solely for sex.[/QUOTE][/B]Fine then. How does one prove his fitness by suicide or self-castration? [QUOTE][B]They were refusing aid unless the natives converted. [/QUOTE][/B]Cite? Or is this like those suicidal lemmings? [QUOTE][B]All of that is nothing besides your imaginary "spirit witness".[/QUOTE][/B]You failed to demonstrate that it was imaginary, you only assume as much, it is a part of your faith-based belief system. Faith, of course, in your case, that is blind. I'd rather have an "imaginary" (according to you) witness than a totally unsupported faith, that I just woke up one day and decided is correct. You might as well have flipped a coin between theism and atheism, your decision would be no less scientific because you have absolutely no evidence at all.Irrelevant crap deleted.