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Author Topic:   Arrgh! Goverment Recommendations Go Overboard Again!
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1 of 28 (191936)
03-16-2005 1:13 PM


I'm responding to the AP article at CCN.com: 90 minutes of exercise? Yeah, right.
I suppose I should wait for the actual release of the recommendations by the government, but just going by the AP article, the government is overemphasizing exercise to a ridiculous degree.
  • People need 30 minutes of physical activity on most days to ward off chronic disease.
  • Once out of their 30s, most people don't exercise. People will not keep up with an exercise program that is not fun. Those that find an exercise they like, whether it's a sport or an exercise machine or walking or whatever, will keep it up. Those unable to find an enjoyable exercise program, which is most people, will not exercise except for a one or two month period after a New Year's resolution or a lecture by their doctor. This is reality. Government sanctioned nagging to increase exercise will not work.
    Exercise has its downside. It wears and tears on the body. I had hip replacement surgery because competitive tennis for 40 years wore it out, and the risk of death for this procedure is far from zero. Many factors of health are inherent in the individual. Jim Fixx, the author of the book of running that set off the running craze of the 1980s, died of a heart attack in his 50s, still running miles every day. Recent reports show that sports injuries are way up. Studies have shown that some people have makeups that exercise will not help. The point is that the issue is far more complicated than just recommending that everybody should be exercising at least 30 minutes almost every day.
  • To prevent unhealthy weight gain, people should spend 60 minutes on physical activity on most days.
  • There is no doubt that obesity is unhealthy in the extreme, but what is obese? I understand the risks of anecdotal accounts, but a story from my own life is very relevant here. A few years ago I discovered that by government measures I was slightly into the overweight area. I dieted and dropped 20 pounds to bring me into the midrange. The result? My stamina on the tennis court disappeared. I couldn't go more than 15 or 20 minutes without huffing and puffing and having to sit down to rest. I put the 20 pounds back on and was fine. Of course, I am now once again overweight by the government measure (unless it's changed again, perfectly possible, of course).
    By the way, I'm 5'10", 180#, 34 inch waist, and of course I was much lighter when I was much younger. "Skinny" is the word that was applied to me most of my life. When I was young I couldn't gain weight no matter how hard I tried, but I gained weight naturally after I passed age 40. I've actually gained and lost weight several times, and it was only the last time that I made the correlation between weight and conditioning. You can easily overdo the weight-loss thing. If you're not regularly engaged in heavy exercise you won't realize it, but if you lose too much weight you're weaker, not stronger. I thought lugging less weight around the tennis court would be to my advantage (not to mention being easier on the joints), but there's a tradeoff. Of course, everyone is different, and everyone else's experience in this regard will be different, which is why I'm writing this to say, "Don't listen to government recommendations!!!!"
    Still, most people don't have to worry about weighing too little, and obesity is a very legitimate health concern. But it is as hard to stay on a diet as it is to stay on an exercise program. Almost everyone's experience with dieting is that at some point the willpower is worn down by the hunger and you put the weight back on. After a year or two you go through the whole process again. And again. And that's the way things are going to stay until someone invents a filling food that tastes good but has no calories. Government should be putting their efforts into finding this miracle food instead of making recommendations that for the most part will only increase guilt, not health!
    --Percy

    Replies to this message:
     Message 2 by Minnemooseus, posted 03-16-2005 1:27 PM Percy has not replied
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     Message 4 by jar, posted 03-16-2005 1:39 PM Percy has not replied
     Message 6 by nator, posted 03-20-2005 2:35 PM Percy has not replied
     Message 17 by purpledawn, posted 03-21-2005 6:48 AM Percy has not replied
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    Minnemooseus
    Member
    Posts: 3941
    From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
    Joined: 11-11-2001
    Member Rating: 10.0


    Message 2 of 28 (191939)
    03-16-2005 1:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
    03-16-2005 1:13 PM


    ...I'm 5'10", 180#, 34 inch waist,...
    What a blimp!
    Moose (47 years old, 6'00", 165-170#, 33-34" waist - I'd probably be about 155-160#, if it were not for the fat in my head)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Percy, posted 03-16-2005 1:13 PM Percy has not replied

      
    crashfrog
    Member (Idle past 1467 days)
    Posts: 19762
    From: Silver Spring, MD
    Joined: 03-20-2003


    Message 3 of 28 (191942)
    03-16-2005 1:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
    03-16-2005 1:13 PM


    If you want reccomendations about your health, talk to a doctor. What the hell does the government know?
    It's possible to change your habits so that you're more active and eat better, but relying on willpower to see you through isn't going to do it. You need to sort of set yourself up to succeed, if you know what I mean.
    If you want to eat healthier, then you need to have healthy food around the house. Don't buy a big box of Nutty Bars (god, I love those) and expect that you're not going to eat them. It's my understanding that dieting is a dead-end. Don't diet, improve your diet. You're not supposed to be hungry; you should fill up on things that are healthy.
    If you want to be more active, then you need to arrange your life so that you have little choice. Get a job that's close enough to walk or bike and where the parking is shit. You'll have little choice but to be active. Or join a competitive sport if you're competitive-minded. You'll be shamed into improving your health every time you get your ass kicked.
    I don't know any more than the government does, of course. I'm no doctor, and it's a doctor's advice that you should be taking. But if a little guilt gets your ass of the couch and makes you eat an apple instead of a whole goddamn bag of chips, well, so what?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Percy, posted 03-16-2005 1:13 PM Percy has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 4 of 28 (191945)
    03-16-2005 1:39 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
    03-16-2005 1:13 PM


    More Breaking information.
    To help improve the overall physical condition and health of our citizens, the DOHS today will announce mandatory work programs for all citizens and resident aliens.
    "A program of regular physical work has been shown to significantly decrease serious medical conditions and to lower the cost of health care more than any other factor including diet (the second greatest contributor) and lifestyle (the third greatest contributor)." said Dr. Manuael Swerez, head of Holistic Contingencies for the Department of Homeland Security.
    He continued,"To improve the general conditioning and health of our citizens, we will be initiating a far reaching program that will meet several goals. Citizens between the ages of 14 and 68 will be assigned to work details where they will be able to participate on a 6 month rotation basis in Agricultural Services. The daily regimen of brisk field work will significantly improve overall health by an estimated factor of 87.325%. In addition, we will improve our nation's overall security by stemming the flow of illegal and undocumented workers. We estimate that this program will reduce the number of illegal and undocumented workers entering the US by 90% and that the overall improvement in Health indices will allow us to reduce HealthCare portions of the budget by as much as 67%. In addition to improving the readiness of every American to respond to attacks as required, the funds thus freed up can be better utilized in other areas."
    It is expected that the program will go into effect during the budget year beginning in October, 2005 and be fully implemented by next harvest season.
    (souce:WireNewsToday)

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
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    Taqless
    Member (Idle past 5914 days)
    Posts: 285
    From: AZ
    Joined: 12-18-2003


    Message 5 of 28 (191954)
    03-16-2005 2:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 4 by jar
    03-16-2005 1:39 PM


    Re: More Breaking information.
    He's recommending this for Americans???? LOL, good luck! This is another example of statistical analyses gone awry (with regard to the "number crunching" involved to show money saving ideas).
    With regards to Percy's "obesity" (maybe your "big-boned"?, lol)...I spent some time in the military and never made the weight range...I was in the 95-99% for each part of the PT test and participated in the remembrance of the Baton Death March (which had a competitive side to it), among many other activities..it never made sense to me.

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     Message 4 by jar, posted 03-16-2005 1:39 PM jar has not replied

      
    nator
    Member (Idle past 2170 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 6 of 28 (192815)
    03-20-2005 2:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
    03-16-2005 1:13 PM


    But percy, weight is not the issue, body composition is.
    I am willing tobet that you lost a bunch of muscle along with some fat when you dropped the 20 pounds, and since you were athletic in the first place, you probably had more muscle than a similar weight person who is sedentary. I am also willing to bet that you weren't eating enough protein when you dropped the weight.
    Take me, for example. I am a woman who is just shy of 5'4" and of medium build, and I weigh just about 140 pounds and am a size 10 junior or a size 8 misses. The government recommends that I weigh 20 pounds less, but when I was 23 years old, a size 6, and basically did moderate to heavy physical labor for 10 hours a day, 6 days a week, I weighed 130 pounds. My back always hurt and I was always exhausted when I was doing that amount of work at that size, too.
    Now, I do go to the gym to exercise around 3 times a week, but never much more than 30-45 minutes on the eliptical or stairmaster. I do not have a sedentary job; I am on my feet and moving all day and carry heavy things up the stairs several times a day as well. I have a great deal more muscle mass than many women my height and weight, and am physically quite strong. If I lost 20 pounds, I would be too thin because of this muscle I have.
    What all this means is that one size does not fit all WRT weight, and that body fat percentage compared to lean muscle mass percentage is much more important. Not to mention how you feel.
    quote:
    And that's the way things are going to stay until someone invents a filling food that tastes good but has no calories.
    They have, it's called "vegetables".
    Seriously, Americans love to eat until they pop, but they don't love food. If they really loved food, then they wouldn't bother eating all of that shitty processed boxed crap that tastes of nothing but salt.
    We don't need government to "invent" any food, we need government to stop subsidizing Kraft, Little Debbie, McDonalds and Oscar Meyer and instead subsidize local farmer's markets and programs to promote the cooking and eating of real food.
    There is a difference between appetite and hunger. Hunger can be satisfied with anything in the stomach, but appetite is the desire for food to taste satisfying, and that is why Americans keep drinking another Budweizer or eating another Funyn. The flavor of those kinds of foods are so unremarkable or so short lived that we take another bite or another gulp, and another and another in order to keep that taste experience, that pleasure, going.
    If we only, or mostly, ate food that was bursting with complexity and fullness of flavor, we would slow down and wait to take that second bite, because the flavor of that first bite wasn't gone yet.
    That is what is wrong with American's eating habits.
    We eat a lot of crappy food in search of satisfying flavor that it will never give us, so we stuff ourselves to bursting instead.
    This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-20-2005 02:37 PM

    This message is a reply to:
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    Silent H
    Member (Idle past 5820 days)
    Posts: 7405
    From: satellite of love
    Joined: 12-11-2002


    Message 7 of 28 (192834)
    03-20-2005 3:32 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by nator
    03-20-2005 2:35 PM


    That is what is wrong with American's eating habits.
    That's what I thought until I started visiting Europe regularly (and now living here). Even my gf had to admit after her stay in the US, that the food choices in the US are much more healthy and diverse.
    It really is shocking how bad European food is, and its slim pickings if you want actual health food.
    Which of course is not to say it is bad tasting. Oh my no. In fact I just found a great English Fish and Chips shop (run by an enterprising Brit) with authentic British fair for those coming over to naughty ol amsterdam. The menu is heartstopping... almost literally. From the batter-fried hamburgers and sausages (yes as bad as a hamburger already is they deepfry it) to the "chip butty" (essentially a french fry sandwich), and all slathered in a vinegar/salt solution... oh my, yum yum.
    Actually I thought your post was really well done (the description of yourself didn't hurt), but I figured I should point out there are lard asses, and veins over on this side of the pond too.

    holmes
    "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by nator, posted 03-20-2005 2:35 PM nator has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 8 by nator, posted 03-20-2005 4:29 PM Silent H has replied
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    nator
    Member (Idle past 2170 days)
    Posts: 12961
    From: Ann Arbor
    Joined: 12-09-2001


    Message 8 of 28 (192846)
    03-20-2005 4:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Silent H
    03-20-2005 3:32 PM


    quote:
    That's what I thought until I started visiting Europe regularly (and now living here). Even my gf had to admit after her stay in the US, that the food choices in the US are much more healthy and diverse.
    It really is shocking how bad European food is, and its slim pickings if you want actual health food.
    It depends upon where you are in Europe.
    You are in the Netherlands, right? Well that's northern Europe, and those folks are not known for having especially healthy cuisine, but I am willing to bet that they still exercise more (they don't drive everywhere) and eat smaller portions than americans do.
    Now, if you head to any of the Mediterranean regions, you can have some of the most wonderful and healthful food imaginable.
    quote:
    Which of course is not to say it is bad tasting. Oh my no. In fact I just found a great English Fish and Chips shop (run by an enterprising Brit) with authentic British fair for those coming over to naughty ol amsterdam. The menu is heartstopping... almost literally. From the batter-fried hamburgers and sausages (yes as bad as a hamburger already is they deepfry it) to the "chip butty" (essentially a french fry sandwich), and all slathered in a vinegar/salt solution... oh my, yum yum.
    And I would say that, every once in a while, eat this food and enjoy every bite!
    (It's also a myth that properly deep-fried food is more fatty than sauteed food. If you keep the temperature levels correct, it's just about the same)
    quote:
    Actually I thought your post was really well done (the description of yourself didn't hurt), but I figured I should point out there are lard asses, and veins over on this side of the pond too.
    Oh, sure, I know that everyone isn't svelte and thin in Europe, but at least the Europeans generally tend to get their extra pounds from eating real food and drinking good beer and wine, while the Americans get fat from drinking soda, lousy beer and eating crappy food from the freezer or a box.
    Anyway, thanks for the compliment, on both counts.
    This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-20-2005 04:30 PM

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Silent H, posted 03-20-2005 3:32 PM Silent H has replied

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    Scaryfish
    Junior Member (Idle past 6291 days)
    Posts: 30
    From: New Zealand
    Joined: 12-06-2004


    Message 9 of 28 (192874)
    03-20-2005 7:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Silent H
    03-20-2005 3:32 PM


    The menu is heartstopping... almost literally. From the batter-fried hamburgers and sausages (yes as bad as a hamburger already is they deepfry it) to the "chip butty" (essentially a french fry sandwich), and all slathered in a vinegar/salt solution... oh my, yum yum.
    Four words. Deep-fried moro bar. That's one thing that a local Fisn 'n chip shop down here makes. That's a chocolate bar, in batter, deep fried. Possibly the fattiest, unhealthiest thing I have ever eaten. Not the kind of thing you'd want to eat on a regular basis.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Silent H, posted 03-20-2005 3:32 PM Silent H has replied

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    coffee_addict
    Member (Idle past 477 days)
    Posts: 3645
    From: Indianapolis, IN
    Joined: 03-29-2004


    Message 10 of 28 (192945)
    03-21-2005 2:02 AM


    Lam
    Age: 22
    Height: 5'7-5'8
    Weight: 140
    Waist size: 31-32
    Eating habit: best described as "one who eats like a pig"
    Foreseeable future: will start to gain some unwanted weight pretty soon

      
    berberry
    Inactive Member


    Message 11 of 28 (192952)
    03-21-2005 2:45 AM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Silent H
    03-20-2005 3:32 PM


    holmes writes:
    quote:
    It really is shocking how bad European food is, and its slim pickings if you want actual health food.
    I've been to Europe and I didn't really notice it, but I've heard this too many times for it not to be true. My grandmother (who owned a travel agency for about 40 years and went to Europe once or twice a year) used to make this same complaint.
    Unless I'm mistaken Europeans don't have to worry as much about healthy food choices since they're generally much more active than Americans, or at least so I've heard. Why is that? Do they not have as much opportunity to idle as we do in America?

    Keep America Safe AND Free!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Silent H, posted 03-20-2005 3:32 PM Silent H has replied

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    Rand Al'Thor
    Inactive Member


    Message 12 of 28 (192977)
    03-21-2005 4:12 AM


    Age: 16
    Weight: 125 lb
    Height: 6'0-6'1
    Waist size: 30?
    I eat tons and run on average 3-10 miles a day. (Run, not jog, I try and keep my average mile time in the 6:00-6:30 for runs farther than 6 miles.)

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    Silent H
    Member (Idle past 5820 days)
    Posts: 7405
    From: satellite of love
    Joined: 12-11-2002


    Message 13 of 28 (192983)
    03-21-2005 5:08 AM
    Reply to: Message 8 by nator
    03-20-2005 4:29 PM


    I am willing to bet that they still exercise more (they don't drive everywhere) and eat smaller portions than americans do.
    Actually they seem to exercise (as in work out specifically to stay in shape) less. However their lifestyles are more active in general. Yes there is more walking, and in the Netherlands lots of biking and climbing stairs. I can handle the stairs part (no need for stairmaster here) but the biking makes me sick. I have no idea how these guys bike so many miles to and from work everyday, even in the nastiest wind and rain.
    As far as eating smaller portions... not from what I've seen.
    I should probably note that in the news around here the Dutch are starting to grow statistically wider, and the Germans have supposedly reached and exceeded US mass.
    (It's also a myth that properly deep-fried food is more fatty than sauteed food. If you keep the temperature levels correct, it's just about the same)
    Yeah, now you just gave me an excuse.

    holmes
    "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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    Silent H
    Member (Idle past 5820 days)
    Posts: 7405
    From: satellite of love
    Joined: 12-11-2002


    Message 14 of 28 (192984)
    03-21-2005 5:10 AM
    Reply to: Message 9 by Scaryfish
    03-20-2005 7:43 PM


    That's a chocolate bar, in batter, deep fried.
    I had a fried chocolate bar, but not a battered/deepfried one. Sounds enticing.

    holmes
    "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

    This message is a reply to:
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    Silent H
    Member (Idle past 5820 days)
    Posts: 7405
    From: satellite of love
    Joined: 12-11-2002


    Message 15 of 28 (192985)
    03-21-2005 5:15 AM
    Reply to: Message 11 by berberry
    03-21-2005 2:45 AM


    they're generally much more active than Americans, or at least so I've heard. Why is that? Do they not have as much opportunity to idle as we do in America?
    They do seem to be more active.
    I imagine some of it is that they used to have more free time than those in the US. For those in the US it seems to be work hard for long long periods of time and then collapse and become a potato (because you won't have any other time). Here it seems there is more time so you'll have plenty of time to actually rest, plus enjoy physical activities that you just enjoy (and not merely to stay in shape).
    But more than that there is just more physical activity in life. Much more walking and biking. Given that cities are much smaller than the US, this is more practical.
    In the Netherlands, there are also lots of stairs.

    holmes
    "...what a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.."(D. Bros)

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